Wikidata talk:WikiProject sum of all paintings

See also: Wikidata talk:WikiProject Visual arts and Wikidata:WikiProject Visual arts/Questions

Picasso SOAP (and also Henner)

Expensive books

As of today, 799 of Pablo Picasso's paintings have been given the WD treatment. That's about one third, or 33%, of his total output as a painter. Shouldn't it be an absolute priority that the list of his works be completed? He shouldn't be ranked so low here: Wikidata:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Top creators by number of paintings.
Speaking of notable painters who have left us tons of paintings without that fact being reflected here, let us pause one moment and think of poor Jean-Jacques Henner. That man has covered well over 1,000 canvases and panels in paint and even has a National Museum to his name. And yet, he doesn't even appear on that list! Life is unfair. Edelseider (talk) 09:15, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

@Edelseider: It's all about digitally accessible sources. The main catalogue raisonné for Picasso is by Christian Zervos (Q1082430) (see picture on the right). As far as I know this is only available in print. It's not something you can easily access. Multichill (talk) 10:19, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

@Edelseider: It's also about volunteers! Each online or offline resource needs a Wikidata volunteer to work on importing the metadata locked inside. For paintings by local painters I am always interested. For paintings by painters outside my local or favorites list, not so much. Jane023 (talk) 08:09, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Syndication of other online catalogs

We currently link to quite a few other online catalogs. I've been contemplating for a while if we should do more bulk imports of these kind of catalogs. These items would probably be of lower quality (less statements) than what I normally do. It would increase the number of paintings and thus the coverage we have making it easier for others because than you have an existing item to expand. Any thoughts? Multichill (talk) 10:27, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I started with Art UK, see Property talk:P1679#Incoming!. We currently have 40K Art UK artwork ID (P1679) out of 215K paintings. Multichill (talk) 15:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I wholly support this (and would love to have the Art UK sculptures too, even though they aren't paintings). Jane023 (talk) 08:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

new proposal J._Paul_Getty_Museum_agent_ID

I proposed a new prop Wikidata:Property_proposal/J._Paul_Getty_Museum_agent_ID to replace the old J. Paul Getty Museum agent DOR ID (old) (P2432) -- Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 16:37, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

SOAP relies on bots, and these bots are working less and less well. It's frustrating.

@Jane023: @Multichill: @Jean-Frédéric: @Nono314: @Thierry Caro: We've had one of these weekends again where nothing works. InteGraalityBot has overslept ([1]), and BotMultichillT has, once again, not proceeded to the weekly update ([2]). Add to this that ListeriaBot doesn't do any manual updates any more. We are too reliant on bots, and now we are f*cked. Edelseider (talk) 07:01, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

My listeria lists are all working semi-regularly, so if yours haven't run in a while, try trimming them down - they may be timing out. I regularly trim my "Top <whatever>" lists that use counts, by increasing the count by one. When I get annoyed I just grab the query out of the listeria list and run the query directly and go from there, which is often faster anyway. Jane023 (talk) 07:12, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

If it was only Listeria - but the others bots are working less well, too. That's the point of my complaint... three bots are malfunctioning at the same time. And I didn't even check HannolansBot. Edelseider (talk) 07:50, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. integraality currently tracks close to 800 dashboards ; 665 were correctly updated last night according to the execution logs.

I’m trying to reproduce locally what’s happening for that particular page locally; it seems like it choked on Grimsby Fishing Heritage Centre (Q120133106) having been turned into a redirect. Jean-Fred (talk) 08:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, that did the trick − see Special:Diff/1985488358. Jean-Fred (talk) 14:45, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

(As a tangent − while I do understand the sentiment, comments like “We are too reliant on bots”, “We are f*cked” etc. have somewhat mixed effects on my motivation to work on integraality… Jean-Fred (talk) 14:53, 2 October 2023 (UTC))

Populating J. Paul Getty Museum agent ID

Now that J. Paul Getty Museum agent ID (P12040) is created, can someone help with populating it? See Property talk:P12040#Populating J. Paul Getty Museum agent ID -- Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 10:45, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Any takers for this task? Please reply at the above link -- Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 15:26, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Museum of Fine Arts of Rennes identifier

Hi y'all,

Since {{Ping project|sum of all paintings}} cannot be used to ping participants of this projet, I'm leaving a message here to let you know that I created Wikidata:Property proposal/identifiant du musée des Beaux-Arts de Rennes.

Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 17:09, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

genre (P136) : mythological painting (Q3374376) how to be more precise ?

For lot of paintings, such as Odysseus in the battle with the suitors (Q124212032), we have the statement genre (P136) : mythological painting (Q3374376).

What is the right way to specify which mythology (Q9134), for instance here classical mythology (Q1367434) ?

Thanks ! Léna (talk) 08:53, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Genre is and should be a broad classification. You can add the relevant main subject (P921), see Wikidata:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Top mythological art main subjects for some examples. Multichill (talk) 22:22, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

main subject (P921) are very specific (and it's a good thing), for instance here slaughter of the suitors (Q117830676). It means that queries for "all classical mythology (Q1367434) paintings" will be complicated no ? Léna (talk) 08:53, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

@Léna: not sure what a consistent way is to (indirectly or directly) link the main subjects with Greek mythology (Q34726). Multichill (talk) 20:52, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

"Genre painting" (Q214127) and "genre art" (Q1047337) must be merged.

Guess which one has 15,738 items and which one has 11? Answer here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings/Top_genres. But merging these two is quite difficult because of all the interwiki links. Edelseider (talk) 20:22, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

genre painting (Q214127) is a subclass of genre art (Q1047337) so shouldn't be merged. Multichill (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

How has this project been such a success?

Hi, I'm writing an article about Wikidata as a platform for cultural data. I'm an active member of this wikiproject and I do GLAM outreach, so there's a lot of background I already understand. Still, I'm curious as to how we got so many items. I'm aware of the Metropolitan Museum of Art (Q160236) CC0 data set, but for some collections I don't know how we got so many items. National Trust (Q333515) has no Wikidata partnership or data sharing policy, yet we have 12,600 of their paintings. How did we get so many paintings from Department of Paintings of the Louvre (Q3044768) or The Palace Museum (Q2047427)? Did the institutions deliberately share the data? Did we get it via an intermediary? I realise that a lot of US museums are okay about freely sharing metadata and some European museum data has come from dedicated projects such as the Flemish museums project. I know that some museums share their metadata on platforms like GitHub, such as Tate (Q430682) and Metropolitan Museum of Art (Q160236). Is something similar the case with all the institutions for which we have huge numbers of paintings? MartinPoulter (talk) 20:15, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@MartinPoulter: except for the Palace Museum, I added the paintings of those institutions to Wikidata. I just scrape whatever factual data is available about collections. See my assorted collection of scrapers. Multichill (talk) 20:43, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Multichill it's no surprise that you're an essential part of this success. Thanks for the link. MartinPoulter (talk) 09:58, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

@MartinPoulter: We could have much more. For instance, if we had a bot that collects all the data from the navigart databases. We could then have all the 6,576 paintings of the Musée national d'art moderne (Q1895953), instead of just 679, like we have now; and that's just one French museum among many. And don't get me started about the National Museum of Serbia (Q1277393), which really deserves better than this puny list: Wikidata:WikiProject sum of all paintings/Collection/National Museum of Serbia. This project has been a success in some areas and for some museums, but not everywhere. --Edelseider (talk) 10:49, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Sure, it's a work in progress and far from complete, just like all of Wikidata and Wikimedia is. But it has enabled some very impressive applications and with a million paintings it's many times larger than Google Arts & Culture or Art UK without the backing of a major funding organisation. Due to its size, diversity (still lots to improve there) and rapid growth I think it can play a big part in the future of resource discovery. That's the case I'll be making, anyway. MartinPoulter (talk) 15:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

You are right to make this case. But as a volunteer who has done a lot but could have done a lot more if I had not been discouraged by the amount of work that is gratuitously left to us volunteers instead of being given to bots, I can tell you that this database is first and foremost a distorted reflection of the actual reality. There are about 1 million paintings in Italian collections, and at least 200,000 of them can be found on Wikimedia Commons, but barely over 7,000 are registered here. There may be some kind of "rapid growth" in the eyes of the outsider, but for the insider, it's mainly the unfillable gaps that are striking. At least, in my opinion. Edelseider (talk) 17:36, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

@Edelseider: in my experience it's better to focus on the positive parts. Not that we should not be aware of what is missing, but the way you're writing it gives me a lot of negative energy and actually discourages me to work on it. It's easier to motivate people with honey than with vinegar (free after).

Even with these huge gaping holes, we already have nearly 1 million paintings on Wikidata. We'll manage to plug these holes one day. It's just a matter of time. Multichill (talk) 16:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

I love you, Multichill, and I love your work. Edelseider (talk) 17:55, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Offered at auction but not sold

I am working on King Edward VI (Q128061753). Sotheby's offered this painting in 2012, but it did not sell. Do we have a way to indicate that? - PKM (talk) 22:51, 31 July 2024 (UTC)