Wikidata:Property proposal/Membro della squadra nazionale

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Member of national sports team

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Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sports

   Not done
DescriptionIs a subset of the property member of sports team (P54) and should be used in order to indicate only the senior representative national teams for which the sportsperson plays / played, or i.e. the test sides in rugby union or every team that grants international official appearance
Representsnational sports team (Q1194951)
Data typeItem
Template parameternationalmannschaft_tabelle in Template:Infobox Rugby Union biography (Q14373909)
Domainhuman (Q5)
Example 1Diego Domínguez (Q1220419)Argentina national rugby union team (Q646070) / Italy national rugby union team (Q113135)
Example 2Jonny Wilkinson (Q318920)England national rugby union team (Q378628) / British & Irish Lions (Q733600)
Example 3Hugo Porta (Q919397)Argentina national rugby union team (Q646070) / Sudamérica XV (Q3976615)
See alsomember of sports team (P54)

Motivation

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This property could be useful for those infoboxes that have a separate section for the international activity of a sportsperson. Ie a footballer or a rugby union player have usually a separate section, distinguished from club/franchise activity (so far the property member of sports team (P54) doeesn't distinguish between domestic and international activity) , and would be possible collect data of the international activity from a separate property. -- Blackcat (talk) 09:26, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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MisterSynergy Thierry Caro Vanbasten_23 Malore Сидик из ПТУ Mathieu Kappler Lee Vilenski Erokhin Dandilero Blackcat Looniverse

Notified participants of WikiProject Sports. Thierry Caro (talk) 11:03, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Support under the property member of a sportteam you actually mix up different kind of teams. A national selection isn't the same as a sport club that play in a normal sport league (in my opinion the actual proberty is disambigous - should I just keep a player in it, when he is playing - or also if he stays in the club in other functions afterwarts? or should I put an entry, when he just was in the youth of the team?). If we don't have a seperate value for this, it's getting more and more difficult to reuse our data, because you have to differ two (or even more) categories of data that is summerized under one property. Even more difficult it gets, when a sportmen or -women plays more than one sport. We should keep this as easy as possible. Fundriver (talk) 10:57, 29 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose per above. As Pintoch points out, you can figure out if a team is national or not by checking its "instance of" property. If the issue is that our data for national sports teams isn't always correct, this is not a good solution; in fact, it'll probably make the problem worse. There will surely be many cases where "member of sports team" is used when this property should have been used instead. If you add an infobox to a new Wikipedia article and see that the national team is mislabeled, just go fix that one item. Frankly, there aren't that many national sports teams -- it wouldn't be that much work to fix every team via script or even manually (there are only ~200 nations in the world, so you could fix every national team for a particular sport with no more than ~200 edits).
User:Fundriver argues that this makes our data harder to reuse, but I would argue that the opposite is true. If you want to get all teams that a player has played for, you'll now have to query multiple properties where you used to only need one. It's also confusing because, where do we draw the line? English Wikipedia also separates youth teams and college teams -- are we going to create new properties for those as well? Another issue: if we make this change, how do we define the scope (Wikidata item of this property (P1629)) of member of sports team (P54)? Right now the scope is defined as sports team (Q12973014), but now it would have to be a list of every type of sports team except for national sports teams.
All in all, this seems like it would create a lot of confusion to solve a problem that could easily be solved by other means. --IagoQnsi (talk) 17:30, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]