Talk:Q107390

subclass of first-level administrative subdivision

(@Arctic.gnome:, who added the statement.)

This item has the statement subclass of (P279)first-level administrative division (Q13220202). I don't think this is correct. A federation could itself be a first- (or second-, or third-, etc.) level subdivision, making the federated state not a first-level subdivision. --Yair rand (talk) 12:35, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'll remove it. I guess there are no statements we can make about these five items that would apply to every country. --Arctic.gnome (talk) 19:11, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

User:Infovarius has now re-added it. @Infovarius: Could you please explain your reasoning? --Yair rand (talk) 17:11, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see the discussion. I've reverted the addition. Infovarius (talk) 19:34, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Q3184121, Q7275 e Q107390

@Andreasmperu: olá! Você falou que federated state (Q107390) não pode ser subclass of (P279) de municipality of Brazil (Q3184121), porque municipality of Brazil (Q3184121) não é um state (Q7275). Logo, percebo que o erro está em pôr federated state (Q107390) como subclass of (P279) de state (Q7275), pois não é soberano, nem nada do tipo, já que está inserido num contexto de uma federação, sem prerrogativas clássicas para as relações internacionais. Assim, federated state (Q107390) deve ser subclass of (P279) political territorial entity (Q1048835), que é mais adequado. Assim, a minha edição fica logicamente certa e o item federated state (Q107390). Certo? --Luan (talk) 16:39, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

This item is about actual federated states, as per most or all of its sitelinks. If some of those sitelinks do not match, those should be split off into a separate item. The Portuguese Wikipedia article appears to be about "federal entities" in general according to Google Translate, so perhaps that should be split off, assuming the class is actually different in some way. --Yair rand (talk) 20:23, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

@Yair rand: a separação é desnecessária tanto quando criar um item separado para as "províncias federadas" da Argentina (province of Argentina (Q44753)) ou as "repúblicas federadas" da Rússia (republic of Russia (Q41162)), por não serem designadas como "estados". O item é genérico por si mesmo e se refere a qualquer ente em uma mesma condição dentro de uma federação. --Luan (talk) 21:36, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

(federated) state

@Arctic.gnome: are them (real) states? It seems to me that this is a mess from English which has one word for both. In Russian the words are different ("штат" and "государствоЭ) and it's obvious that there are instances of Q107390 which are not states (e.g. German Bundeslands, Russian republics and so on). Infovarius (talk) 20:10, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

@User:Infovarius: In English, German Bundeslands and Russian Republics are called state (Q7275). In fact, the English definition of state (Q7275) specifically says that it includes federated state (Q107390). What are the characteristics of a polity that Russians would call "штат" but not "государство"? --Arctic.gnome (talk) 21:54, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

@Arctic.gnome: Государство is independent, штат is dependent. Штат can't have its own army, in particular. --Infovarius (talk) 21:41, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

@Infovarius: An independent state with an army and embassies and a seat in the UN is a sovereign state (Q3624078). States that don't have those are a federated state (Q107390) or constituent state (Q1763527) or maybe dependent territory (Q161243). But they are all state (Q7275) if there is some kind of government in charge of the area. --Arctic.gnome (talk) 02:40, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, are really all

⟨ state (Q7275)    ⟩ subclass of (P279) ⟨ subject of international law (Q1896989)    ⟩

then? --Infovarius (talk) 13:25, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Label "federal state"

For reference, "federal state" is one of the labels used for this kind of entity, even if ambiguous. Quotation evidence is in wikt:federal state. Dan Polansky (talk) 14:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)