Talk:Q1260032

Einar Myre its a picture of Old Aker Church (Q1260032)

• best if DigitaltMuseum (Q11125708) could create KulturNav-ID (P1248) for all WD objects but at least in the Swedish part of DM they dont do that --> this is a workaround how we can find items they have see blog
  • if you have contacts with DM ask them to create KulturNav-ID (P1248) for items we do same as my feeling is that DM is a product from Norway so most of the development is done in Norway and the Swedish museums just use what is developed by the Norweigian part
  • if you would like just artworks do instance of (P31) -> painting (Q3305213) see list
  • one benefit of doing what I do is that DM could develop a tool for museums that use what we do in Wikidata as suggestions to add Authorities in the same way we have in Wikidata Mix-a-Match see video in Swedish...

- Salgo60 (talk) 15:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@Salgo60: DigitaltMuseum ID (P7847) is a Wikidata property for an identifier (Q19847637), and should therefore uniquely identify the given subject. This means that 011041109157 is an appropriate identifier for Portrait of the Poet Henrik Ibsen (Q55421864), but not for Henrik Ibsen (Q36661), because the page uniquely identifies the painting, and not the person depicted. It's true that 021047743780 is a picture of this church, but it's not about the church, it's about the picture made by Kristian Kalmer (Q11982056) and owned by Oslo Museum (Q6877320). If someone adds the picture to Wikidata (and this is not unlikely, we already have many items from the same museum), the new item should get the identifier.

If you want to find people and places in DigitaltMuseum (Q11125708), it looks like they have other kinds of identifiers, which are used to return search results. So for example BECFB34E-D39E-438B-B074-0F06A2ECE85C represents Henrik Ibsen (Q36661), and Gamle Aker represents Gamle Aker (Q17775792). Could a solution be to create new properties for these identifiers? Einar Myre (talk) 17:12, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@Einar Myre: Yes its a mess and a little bit sad that museums trying to do Linked data gets a complexity that nearly no one understand. My hope is that we on the Wikidata side can make this process move forward and simplier than todays workflow... I created a video in Swedish trying to explain how I think it works today warning 17 min and re-added the DigitaltMuseum ID (P7847) on this object see Q1260032#P7847 using qualifiers like depicts (P180), title (P1476), creator (P170)....

My understanding is that Digitalmuseum has a "small wikidata" called kulturnav that is KulturNav-ID (P1248)

• Henrik Ibsen (Q36661)
  • has KulturNav-ID (P1248) 77da8af9-222f-4cea-8869-1ec51f32da0e
    • if the museums are doing this correct they say that painting xxxx depicts person kulturnav 77da8af9-222f-4cea-8869-1ec51f32da0e
      • if the museums has done that then all museums Henrik Ibsen (Q36661) objects can be found on digitaltmuseum.org/77da8af9-222f-4cea-8869-1ec51f32da0e
• the aq=name%3A%22BECFB34E-D39E-438B-B074-0F06A2ECE85C%22 is my understanding that a museum use its local client called Primus in this system they can say that we group all Henrik Ibsen (Q36661) and if they have done that we can do a search on all the Henrik Ibsen (Q36661) objects that museum has connected...

My feeling is that at least in Sweden museums dont create kulturnav records for people they just adds text --> we dont even get the '/search/aq.....

• There is now a possibility for us external to start the process of creating kulturnav objects if they dont exist (for small museums they dont). The process is like:

1. suggest a new person/place if that person/place has a VIAF number
2. if you have suggested it then you need to wait for an approval a day or two
3. if the new suggested kulturnav is approved you should then tell the museums now we have an object in kulturnav and please connect your object xxx to kulturnav yyy (has not worked so far most museums I feel dont use kulturnav)

I have tried 1) and 2) but 3) takes for ages and is not worth the effort is my feeling

• My thought of use DigitaltMuseum ID (P7847) saying this person is in the DM picture xxxx is to avoid 1-3 and as Wikidata has a lot of objects we

1. add value to DM
2. we make it easier for people in Wikidata to find picture of on object/person
3. we dont have to go through step 1-3 that can take weeks

To better explain Qnumber -> DigitaltMuseum ID (P7847) -> DM we could start adding a qualifier is one thought I had but havent tested it...

• The user cases I see
  • the object is a picture that is the same as Wikidata object --> no qualifier needed
  • object is a picture and the person in Wikidata is the creator --> qualifier saying creator?!?!?
  • object is a picture and the person in Wikidata is depicted --> qualifier saying depicted?!?!?
  • ?!?!?!

- Salgo60 (talk) 06:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

If we add the picture to Wikicommons then we just add DigitaltMuseum ID (P7847) as structured data see examples haswbstatement:P7847 but that will then be in Wikibase on Commons - Salgo60 (talk) 06:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

More input --> we revert

We had a discussion on the Swedish Wikidata Telegram group

1. and they also thought is wrong and to much violence on WD
2. if the object in DM is notable then create an object in Wikidata and use that --> Old Akers church (Q98260715)
3. if not notable we have no good solution for how to help museums putting Old Aker Church (Q1260032) on a map
   1. what DM has today link / JSON is just text string.... I will create on GITHUB a GIST with a list of what we have done before reverting....

- Salgo60 (talk) 08:59, 11 August 2020 (UTC)