Talk:Q2230854
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Autodescription — Schulklopfer (Q2230854)
description: person who calls a Jewish community to prayer in the local synagogue
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I believe there are two terms mixed together - shamash (or gabbai) - see w:en:Gabbai shouldn't be linked with Schulklopfer. So links to German and Polish Wikipedia should be probably removed (I'm not sure about the Russian Wiki since I can't read Cyrilic). There should probably be a new item for Shamash which is slightly different position that Gabbai. --Auvajs (talk) 22:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
- It seems to me like we're dealing with 3 different roles/offices connected to a synagogue: shamash as a technical and operative employee (shimesh=served), gabbai as an administrative employee and financial manager (gava=collected, claimed) and shulklopper as a particular special task consisting mainly in knocking the doors ("waking service") for the minyan members. In addition, there are at least 2 other roles often connected with these: rabbi's assistant and "segan", the person standing on the bimah during Torah reading and supervising the hallachical issues of this part of the services. Since these three roles (or two of them) often have been assigned to one person, there is some linguistic confusion between the terms, as well as articles in wikipedias (and other -pedias) dealing with those three roles in one article. On Wikidata we should actually split them up as separate items; the questions are: How to connect articles on various Wikies if some of them are describing the roles (or only some of them) separately, while other ones make a common article about several or all of them.
- The Russian article uses the term shames/shamash, but concentrates on his administrative and financial role (which I assigned to "gabbai").
- I suggest that at least the "shulklopfer" (and segan, if there is some article about him) should be granted a separate items, since they are quite special tasks.--Shlomo (talk) 11:29, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
- I modified Q2230854 to contain Shulklopfer only and created Q20064865 for Shames. Have a look at it. You can create an entry for Gabbai and Segan. --Auvajs (talk) 20:21, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
- Gabbai (Q1488015) already created by Sk!dbot back in 2012. Actually, there is an item for segan as well (Q7446207), but with another meaning than described here. As for now, I don't think Wikidata needs another "segan" item. Anybody disagreeing with me is invited to create it, though ;) --Shlomo (talk) 06:03, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
- I modified Q2230854 to contain Shulklopfer only and created Q20064865 for Shames. Have a look at it. You can create an entry for Gabbai and Segan. --Auvajs (talk) 20:21, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
- BTW shamash and schulklopfer had had separated items originally, see en:w:Special:Diff/545754719. It has been merged with this one, now it's separated again. Which is correct according to MHO, but be prepared, that some bot/Widar/Game (mis)user will merge them again. This continuing war between (semi)robots and humans destroying any piece of serious and checked data is the main reason I backed away from my efforts of improving this project. Waiting for better times to come...--Shlomo (talk) 06:38, 10 June 2015 (UTC)