User talk:Jrm03063

Welcome to Wikidata, Jrm03063!

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Best regards! --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:33, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

self-referencing statements

I undid a few of your edits, which added self-references to the following:

• Sargent Shriver (Q317248)
• William Stafford (Q8018704)
• Kakhaber II Gurieli (Q20559002)

The first and last look like understandable mistakes, confusing a parent and child with the same name (plus or minus a "Jr." or a "II"). The statement you added to William Stafford (Q8018704) was that the subject was his own mother. I just wanted to let you know in case this helps you fix your editing process in some way, or in case you think I've misunderstood something. Thanks for working on genealogical relationships among notable people in Wikidata! --Jamie7687 (talk) 23:46, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks - I saw that - and I definitely appreciate it. Really!

I'm trying to be careful. I'm using a program to compare and contrast the genealogical organization of notable people between the WeRelate site and Wikidata. Ultimately - that program should actually detect such errors - because WeRelate can't create connections of the sort you describe. I'm torn between a large scale load of data from that process - versus working through it by hand to try to avoid silly mistakes. But of course - working by hand (and quickly) is also an error prone procedure.  :( !

For now at least - as long as no one is taking offense (are they?) - I'm going to weigh the O(10) errors that you've found in my efforts against rather more than that which I've been able to correct. Likewise it's in the context of some 9,000 +/- new claims that I've been able to establish. But certainly - if there are others out there with different ideas on how I can better do what I'm doing - I want to hear.

So thanks again for noticing - it wasn't clear that anyone was aware of what I was doing. Even if such notice arises only out of validity checking that looks for structurally incorrect claims! --Jrm03063 (talk) 21:21, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Family relation between Walram I of Nassau and Ruprecht I and Ruprecht II of Laurenburg

Why do you keep on changing the relationship between Walram I of Nassau and his real father Ruprecht II of Laurenburg into suggesting his grandfather Ruprecht I of Laurenburg is his father? Please check out the relevant modern date sources about the oldest generations of the House of Nassau. F.e. Hermann Heck, Genealogische Betrachtungen zur Geschichte des Hauses Laurenburg-Nassau in: Nassauische Annalen 1961; H.F.J. Hesselfelt, De oudste generaties van het huis Nassau in: De Nederlandsche Leeuw, Maandblad van het Koninklijk Nederlandsch Genootschap voor Geslacht- en Wapenkunde 1965, nr. 11; A.W.E. Dek, Genealogie van het Vorstenhuis Nassau, Europese Bibliotheek, Zaltbommel, 1970; and GRAFEN von NASSAU. --HRvO (talk) 19:52, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm glad you're watching - and hope you can help me!

My language skills beyond English are decidedly limited - so I'm pretty much going by what I understand from the English WP page for Walram I. But if you really want to know why I keep coming back to this - you need to understand that I'm working a project to try to increase/improve genealogy relationships in Wikidata - while simultaneously expanding the genealogy coverage of the Genealogy Wiki WeRelate. I'm running software that grovels over WeRelate and the genealogy data on Wikidata - which then flags differences. I've added or updated more than 10,000 claims in Wikidata - with (I think) - generally good accuracy.

But I'm happy to admit - that there will be those that I get wrong. Between my limited language skills - over-reliance on English WP (but I do prefer Cawley) - weak information in WeRelate - and me attempting to move too fast and cover too wide an area. Taken together - I will make mistakes.

On the whole - I think I get a lot more right than wrong - but as I've said - I will get things wrong. So I appreciate help.

So the problem in question...

WeRelate certainly appears to have Walram I below Robert I and Beatrix. As I look at Cawley - I see that the spouses of Robert I and Robert II were both named Beatrix - which I think helped lead me astray (that and I think weirdness in the English WP page).

But I'm very happy to defer to you - as a (presumably) native speaker with better access to material - and who's paid greater attention to this particular genealogy...

So, to get this right - I would create Robert II as a child of Robert I and Beatrix, I would give Robert II a spouse named Beatrix and I would make Walram I a child of Robert II and the second Beatrix.  ? --Jrm03063 (talk) 21:14, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Of course I want to help. I understand the frustation when the data in databases is incorrect or inconclusive.

From the charters referred to in the Dutch sources it is certain that Rupert I was married to Beatrix of Limburg. From another charter is is certain that from the marriage they had a son called Arnold II. From other charters it is known that Arnold II ruled Laurenburg together with his brother Rupert II. This in the past caused diffussion as Rupert I also ruled together with his brother, who was also called Arnold.

From a charter from 1158 it appears that Beatrix of Limburg was regent for her grandchildren. Her sons Arnold and Robert are also mentioned in that charter.

Then there is a gap in prove for the exact family relations. Three counts, then calling themselves "of Nassau", appear after 1160: Rupert III, Henry I and Walram I. The remaining charters name Rupert III and Henry I as cousins, and also name Rupert III and Walram I as cousins. From this the German scolar Hermann Heck concluded that it is likely that Henry I and Walram I were brothers. This conclusion is shared by the Dutch sources I mentioned above.

It is correct that Cawley mentions a Beatrix as the mother of Walram I, quoting a manuscript dated to end 13th/early 14th century. According to H.F.J. Hesselfelt in his article this is probably an error and did the name Beatrix refer to Walram's grandmother Beatrix of Limburg. Note that Cawley quotes the same dates of death for both the wife of Rupert I and Rupert II. It's unclear what the name of the wife of Rupert II was, it might be that she was also called Beatrix, which would be a coincidence. But in the Dutch sources she is simply called "unknown".

So yes, I would suggest you would name Rupert II as child of Rupert I and Beatrix, and Walram I as child of Rupert II and an unknown woman. I hope this explanation did help. --HRvO (talk) 18:30, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Very Helpful! Thanks - I've modified WeRelate as suggested and included your narrative from above here. --Jrm03063 (talk) 22:00, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

William Monson

I've just spotted your edits to William Monson, 1st Viscount Monson (Q8015735) & Sir Thomas Monson, 1st Baronet (Q7529213). William was actually the son of William Monson (Q8015736), Thomas's brother. I think the old DNB got this wrong, but the new ODNB and the History of Parliament confirm it. I'll correct them, but wanted you to know why in case you spotted the reverts and was confused! Andrew Gray (talk) 18:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. This lets me right things over on WeRelate - which then won't be flagged as different from Wikidata by my comparison program... --Jrm03063 (talk) 04:41, 23 August 2018 (UTC)