Wikidata:Property proposal/ITF women's tournament ID

ITF tournament ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sports

   Done: ITF tournament ID (P6841) (Talk and documentation)

Description	identifier for a tennis tournament edition in the International Tennis Federation database
Represents	International Tennis Federation (Q223041)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	tennis tournament edition (Q47345468)
Allowed values	^(women|men):1\d{8,9}$
Example 1	2011 Cairns Tennis International – women's singles (Q3649887) → women:1100024972
Example 2	2010 McDonalds Burnie International – women's singles (Q3853375) → women:1100021249
Example 3	Mildura Grand Tennis International 2012 (Q3857838) → women:1100026102
Source	https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/tournaments/women's-calendar.aspx https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/tournaments/men's-calendar.aspx
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	not much personally
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-externalid-url/?p=XXX&id=$1 to give a result of https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/tournaments/women's-tournament/info.aspx?tournamentid=$1
Robot and gadget jobs	yes
See also	ITF player ID before 2020 (archived) (P599) ATP tennis tournament ID (P3456) WTA tennis tournament ID (P3469)

Motivation

I noticed that many items about tennis tournaments have no external identifiers. This one may help. A similar property appears necessary for the men's tournaments, but the advanced search for that isn't working at the moment. 99of9 (talk) 06:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Initial oppose The identifier can still be suitable for men's tournaments. Why restrict the ID to women's tournaments? Surely you had a message "error 503" (Service Unavailable). I think the site has problems. For an advanced search, this link will convince you (try several times if it doesn't work). --Eihel (talk) 09:22, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

@Eihel: The men need a different property anyway because they need a different formatter url. Unless you mean to include a whole ugly string in the I'd. --99of9 (talk) 14:05, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

i.e. the id would become something like: "women's-tournament/info.aspx?tournamentid=1100024972" instead of just "1100024972". --99of9 (talk) 00:59, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Sorry for the delay. @99of9:Hello. I see things simply for the user and without having to use internal tools for this case (like ORCID, VIAF, ISNI...). The future property can be called "ITF tournament ID". The changes will be at the level of constraints (with two RegEx):

• format as a regular expression (P1793) → 1\d{9} (so the Ids remain the same)
  • syntax clarification (P2916) → ten-digit number starting with 1
• citation-needed constraint (Q54554025)
  • format as a regular expression (P1793) → https:\/\/www\.itftennis\.com\/procircuit\/tournaments\/(women|men)'s-tournament\/info\.aspx\?tournamentid=1\d{9} (inclusion of men and women)
  • constraint status (P2316) → mandatory constraint (Q21502408) (obligation to differentiate between men and women)

The second RegEx will be for the reference constraint. Is it okay for you? Even if the user doesn't use the Property properly, all tournaments can be incorporated. --Eihel (talk) 06:49, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Eihel: But then you couldn't make a working formatter URL (P1630)? Or maybe I don't understand your idea. --99of9 (talk) 07:50, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@99of9: I was going to add without P1630, exactly. But that should not be a problem, right? The NARA identifiers above will not have any more. Another little explanation: all the ids I've seen since 1994 have this RegEx (1XXXXXXXXX). --Eihel (talk) 08:00, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

This discussion sound similar to the problem I faced with Wikidata:Property proposal/Identifiant itch.io. Wouldn't the same solution be viable, aka, using wikidata-externalid-url ? --Misc (talk) 08:09, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Exactly no, that's what I proposed to 99of9, Misc: without using this tool (follow the conversation from the beginning), we can do more simple (see the constraints above). The use of P1630 is not an obligation (or any other URL, URI, etc.). Redirection is not required either. A reference follows the ID and the ID, in the Items, will not be clickable, only the reference can lead to the right external page (like that, there will be no vandalism too). It is only a gender differentiation in the external link (so 2 choices, QED). It is not insurmountable. There are not hundreds of developers like in itch.io, just two separate cases. The NARA identifiers at the top of this page is an example: no URL. If the proposal goes in that direction, I will vote for it, because it is a simple case. Best regards. --Eihel (talk) 08:31, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

I was wrong: citation-needed constraint (Q54554025) is used alone. Finally, I think you're right @Misc: redirection may be necessary. --Eihel (talk) 15:47, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

I believe formatter URL (P1630) should be used whereever possible, because it means that direct Wikidata users (who would not necessarily expand the references section) can get the information immediately. For me, two related properties (men/women) is not a problem, but I am willing to use redirection if that is the preference of others. --99of9 (talk) 04:37, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

 Conditional support The best alternative would be to use a splitting type identifier like men:1ddddddddd or women:1ddddddddd → RegEx: ^(women|men):1\d{8,9}$. @99of9, Misc: what do you think ? There would be formatter URL (P1630).--Eihel (talk) 15:44, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I do not feel strongly about one or the other, but I think 1 single ID is better for queries, so I would vote yes (but to be fair, I would vote "yes" either way) --Misc (talk) 15:51, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Ok, I've adjusted to the single ID. --99of9 (talk) 00:11, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Comment Not sure if it matters much for the proposal, but tournaments would have tennis tournament edition (Q47345468), not tennis event (Q46190676). --- Jura 13:11, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks, updated. --99of9 (talk) 14:27, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Support Kristbaum (talk) 21:34, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

 Done @99of9, Misc, Eihel: --Kristbaum (talk) 22:39, 11 June 2019 (UTC) Created a pull reqest for the external id, hope it works.

and @Jura1: --Eihel (talk) 23:14, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

request made to ArthurPSmith for wikidata-externalid-url --Eihel (talk) 10:03, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

ArthurPSmith and Kristbaum made the necessary changes: the links are working now. Thanks for him. @99of9, Misc, Jura1, Kristbaum, ArthurPSmith: Wikipedially. --Eihel (talk) 13:37, 12 June 2019 (UTC)