Wikidata:Property proposal/recordist

recordist

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sister projects

   Done: recordist (P10893) (Talk and documentation)

Description	indicates the person who recorded the audio for this file
Represents	recordist (Q112791061)
Data type	Item
Domain	primarily audio files on Commons
Allowed values	primarily human (Q5) and organization (Q43229)
Example 1	File:Suikinkutsu recording.ogg → somevalue author name string (P2093) "Komura Jutaro"
Example 2	File:NASA's_Perseverance_Rover_Microphone_Captures_Sounds_from_Mars_without_rover_noise.ogg → Perseverance (Q87749354)
Example 3	File:Blue_whale_atlantic2_1x.oga → National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Q214700)
See also	creator (P170), captured with (P4082), recording location (P8546), recording date (P10135)

Motivation

Any audio or video file was recorded by someone (or something). There's creator (P170) but that is vague. Who is the creator of a file? The person being recorded? The person doing the recording? The person editing it afterwards? The person who uploaded it? Therefore I think it would be better to have a property to explicitly state who did the recording when that information is known.

This would, for example, correspond to the parameter "recorder" in commons:Template:Pronunciation file.

I've used the uncommon term "recordist" here for the English label because "recorded by" is often understood (in English, at least) as "performed by". "recorded by" can still be added as an alias.

- Nikki (talk) 00:57, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 07:30, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
•  Support -- TiagoLubiana (talk) 19:07, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
• @Nikki this should apply to the recording of any type of data, not just audio and video. For example, photos, recording data part of an science project, etc. Aliases would also be "filmer" and "photographer". If these cases are met then  Support Lectrician1 (talk) 13:04, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

  I really don't agree with that. The whole point of creating a new property is to have a property with a specific meaning, instead of having to use properties like creator (P170) which mean various things. Recording audio, taking a photograph and making measurements/observations as part of an investigation are completely different things. - Nikki (talk) 11:01, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

•  Support.  Comment for @Lectrician1:: do you have any clear examples where "photographer" can't be illustrator (P110) or creator (P170)? VIGNERON (talk) 10:23, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

  @VIGNERON Using illustrator (P110) for "photographer" seems wrong because we're talking about two different actions. One is drawing while another is taking a photo. What if a book had illustrations and photos drawn and taken by different people?

  For creator (P170) we run into a similar situation where different things are doing different actions. The camera would technically be the creator of the photo and not the photographer as it is the one actually manipulating the medium of which the work is conveyed - just as a sculptor or painter is the one who manipulates the clay or paint. Whereas with recordist, we know that this relationship is derived from the action of someone operating a device that creates the data we are talking about. This is exactly what a photographer does.

  On another note, "audio recorder" and "filmer" should probably be different properties since videos can have a filmer and audio engineer. But in those cases we should probably use contributor to the creative work or subject (P767) since those are pretty niece roles. Lectrician1 (talk) 10:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

•  Support In film, a recording engineer is a specialist who sometimes has a role of a "recordist". The role is sometimes also called a sound recordist (Q27148032). This property seems to remove the "sound" portion (to c accommodate any type of data, leaving a more abstract, broader usage with "recordist", which is very beneficial to have as well.  Comment I think exploring (I see audio engineer (Q128124), sound archivist (Q107002648) ) and discussing that now would be useful prior to creation, especially to help define what is/is not a "recordist". But most important to me, would be seeing the proposed property having a property that relates it to action/process of recording (Q13557414) somehow, can that be done? --Thadguidry (talk) 17:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
•  Support, but the description appears to limit this to audio recordings. RDA (Resource Description and Access) has a relationship property for this, and it also includes video recordings: has recordist agent: "Relates an expression to an agent who contributes to an expression by using a recording device to capture sound or video during a recording session." Recordist should be available for use for both audio and video, and not just digital files. An audio recording on tape or a video recording on a cassette could also have a recordist. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 21:53, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

  I would definitely include videos with sound (if someone recorded the sound for an audio file which was extracted from a video, they must have recorded it for the video too). I'm not sure what I think about using it for videos without sound. - Nikki (talk) 11:08, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

• @Nikki, Lucas Werkmeister, TiagoLubiana, VIGNERON, Lectrician1, Thadguidry:  Done as recordist (P10893). UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 18:06, 29 July 2022 (UTC)