Wikidata talk:Wikidata Lexeme Forms/Breton

breton-noun-without-mutation deployed

@VIGNERON: breton-noun-without-mutation is deployed, do you want to try it out before I announce it on Twitter? :) --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 11:26, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I'll try it first and tell you if it's ok. @Pymouss: could you also try please? A galon, VIGNERON (talk) 11:39, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Lucas Werkmeister: seems good enough to be announced publicly, I'll ping Breton speaker to have it tested. breton-adjective-without-mutation is good enough too. For the mutations, I need to think a bit more about it and to improve the examples. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 13:33, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@VIGNERON, Pymouss: Alright, I updated the noun template and deployed the adjective template too. Thanks! --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 15:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@Lucas Werkmeister: I noticed a bug. When I use breton-adjective-without-mutation, it doesn't look for existing adjective (Q34698) but for existing noun (Q1084) (which is strange as templates.py does say 'lexical_category_item_id': 'Q34698'. I looked at others templates (try "sing" on english-verb to replicate it for instance) and found the same problem everywhere, I guess noun (Q1084) is heardcoded somewhere (but couldn't find where). A galon, VIGNERON (talk) 13:37, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

@VIGNERON: I don’t think it looks for adjectives or nouns in particular – the duplicate search only looks for lexemes with the same lemma, regardless of lexical category. I guess in your tests it only found nouns, but e. g. “stand” will find both the noun and the verb as potential duplicates. --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 19:05, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

@Lucas Werkmeister: Ah yes, indeed, my bad, I probably took bad examples. Thanks for the explanation. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 20:05, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Plural in translations

@Fulup: Thanks for improving the translations and templates! I just want to check up on this edit, because that glote(nt) looks suspiciously like a potential plural form, like “user(s)” in English. That shouldn’t be necessary, that’s what the {{PLURAL}} support is for… could that be used here?
Also, side note – Babel seems to claim that Breton supports four plural forms, one/two/few/other. If I’m not mistaken, I’ll have to provide some format for all of those, even if I just copy the same format (Furmoù) for two/few/other, or the tool will crash. Do you know if the four different forms are relevant here? --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 18:54, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

@VIGNERON, Fulup, Iriep: I’ve updated the tool now, but left out the translations that use {{PLURAL}} – as expected, the discrepancy between Babel enumerating four plural forms but the translations only providing two caused the tool to crash in some situations. --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 13:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@Lucas Werkmeister: thanks, I corrected glote(nt) (I hope, I'm always a bit uneasy with these Mediawiki magic words).

Breton (as a language) has indeed 4 grammatical numbers (basically, if you go in details, you can count more numbers for double plural, paucal or others things like that, always by combination of the 4 "basic" numbers) but each words has only 2 grammatical numbers (again, caveat) it's *either* singular/plural *or* singulative/collective, so I don't think it's relevant for the translations (but it makes me think that *it is* relevant for the patterns, we should have - at least - 4 paterns for breton noun : with and without mutation, with singular/plural and with collective/singulative, I'll try to correct that during the week).

Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 14:13, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

@VIGNERON: Thanks, that helps – but I still need to know whether the words in the messages are of the singular/plural or the singulative/collective variety. From my point of view, the Babel library tells me that e. g. 3 corresponds to the “few” plural form, and so the message needs to provide some text for that plural form, even if it’s actually the same as the “other” plural form. (I’m not sure how best to reflect that in MediaWiki’s {{PLURAL}} syntax which is used on-wiki, but at the end of the day I rewrite that to a more Python-ish syntax while transcribing the translations anyways, so I suppose you can also just tell me here without updating the wiki page at all.) --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 14:49, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry I missed your message. I think the Babel library is not correct about Breton. --Fulup (talk) 15:36, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

@Fulup: yes, Babel is strange. @Lucas Werkmeister: pointed me to the source here and it is mostly correct but this is not really relevant for our case (no numbers explicitely involved here). Could you check if « Furmoù al leksem da heul ne glotent gant furm ebet eus ar patrom: » is correct ? It displays « Furm al leksem da heul ne glote gant furm ebet eus ar patrom: » if there is only one and « Furmoù al leksem da heul ne glotent gant furm ebet eus ar patrom: » if there is more, which sounds good to me (emichañs ;) ). Could you confirm? A galon, VIGNERON (talk) 17:35, 7 June 2020 (UTC)