Property talk:P1447
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Documentation
Sports-Reference.com Olympic athlete ID (archived)
identifier for an Olympic athlete (sportsperson) at sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/
identifier for an Olympic athlete (sportsperson) at sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Format “
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). Known exceptions: Evert-Jan 't Hoen (Q2553574), Gerry Ó Colmáin (Q58640718)|([a-z]{2}|[aeiou])\/(\1[a-z\-]*|[a-z\-]*-\1[a-z\-]*)-1?\d”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Format, SPARQL
Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Unique value, hourly updated report, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value)
Type “human (Q5), architectural firm (Q4387609), ministry of the Kingdom of Italy (Q26243694), commune of Italy (Q747074)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “human (Q5), architectural firm (Q4387609), ministry of the Kingdom of Italy (Q26243694), commune of Italy (Q747074)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Type Q5, Q4387609, Q26243694, Q747074, hourly updated report, SPARQL
Qualifiers “subject named as (P1810), archive URL (P1065), archive date (P2960), reason for deprecated rank (P2241), country for sport (P1532), alternative name (P4970)”: this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#allowed qualifiers, hourly updated report, SPARQL
Single best value: this property generally contains a single value. If there are several, one would have preferred rank (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#single best value, SPARQL
Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as reference (Q54828450): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Scope, hourly updated report, SPARQLItem “Olympedia people ID (P8286)”: Items with this property should also have “Olympedia people ID (P8286)”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Item P8286, search, SPARQL
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Entity types
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Item P641, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Item P641, search, SPARQL
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Item P106, search, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1447#Item P106, search, SPARQL
Human without participation (P1344)
Item with a Sports-Reference.com Olympic athlete ID (archived) (P1447) identifier should have a participant in (P1344) claim for their Olympic participation (Help)
Violations query:
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1447#Human without participation (P1344)
Item with a Sports-Reference.com Olympic athlete ID (archived) (P1447) identifier should have a participant in (P1344) claim for their Olympic participation (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P1447 ?id; wdt:P31 wd:Q5 . MINUS { ?item wdt:P1344 [] } } ORDER BY ASC(xsd:integer(STRAFTER(STR(?item), 'Q')))List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1447#Human without participation (P1344)
Human without occupation (P106)
Q5 without occupation (P106) (Help)
Violations query:
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1447#Human without occupation (P106)
Q5 without occupation (P106) (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P1447 ?id; wdt:P31 wd:Q5 FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?item wdt:P106 [] } } ORDER BY ASC(xsd:integer(STRAFTER(STR(?item), 'Q')))List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1447#Human without occupation (P106)
Check id
Rapid check id (Help)
Violations query:
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1447#Check id
Rapid check id (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item ?id ?prefix ?sufix ?sub { ?item wdt:P1447 ?id. BIND (STRBEFORE(?id, "/") AS ?prefix). BIND (STRAFTER(?id, "-") AS ?sufix). BIND (SUBSTR(?sufix, 1, 2) AS ?sub). FILTER (STRLEN(?prefix) = 2). FILTER (CONTAINS( ?sufix, ?prefix ) = false). FILTER (?sub = ?prefix). FILTER (?item NOT IN (wd:Q2553574, wd:Q58640718)) }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1447#Check id
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Pattern ^(https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/)?(.*)\.html$ will be automatically replaced to \2. Testing: TODO list |
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This property is being used by: Sports-Reference external link templates/modules using P1447:
Sports-Reference citation templates using P1447:
Other external link templates/modules using P1447, without formatter URL from Wikidata:
Other external link templates/modules using P1447, with formatter URL from Wikidata:
Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
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Discussion[edit]
Only Olympics?[edit]
It seems to me that P1447 as currently defined only adresses the "Olympic" section of sports-reference.com. While I'm absolutely fine with this, as it fulfills my purpose, I'm wondering if the definition of the Property should stress that only olympians are adressed? --VicVal (talk) 00:03, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
Format[edit]
@Jon Harald Søby: I think, it would be great to see, what results would be, if we change format a little bit. See for example lo/pierre-lorin-1. The last word before digit begins with the same two letters, which are before the slash. Although, there are exceptions (those which have only one letter before slash and people with different word order, Ted Huang (Q2399776), for example), this should highlight some errors, I think. Ideas? --Edgars2007 (talk) 13:16, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Edgars2007: I think there would be way too many exceptions for the list to be useful, precisely because of East Asian performers like {{Q|2399776}. It would be better to in some way extract all values and match them to a regex in a different way, I think. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Jon Harald Søby: yes, that was my second option. But as there are more than 85tk items with this ID, I didn't want to download them :D Maybe you could perform such scan? --Edgars2007 (talk) 14:25, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Edgars2007: An idea could be to change it temporarily for a day or two, so the constraint report will report on those errors, and then revert to the normal format? That way we can copy the results from that day to work on. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:28, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Jon Harald Søby: yeah, sure. That would be fine. --Edgars2007 (talk) 14:35, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Edgars2007: Okay, this regex should do the trick:
([a-z]{2}|[aeiou])/(\1[a-z\-]*|[a-z\-]*-\1[a-z]*)-1?\d. It will match stuff on the formxx/xxyyy-yyy-0orxx/yyy-xxyyy-0, so that it will tackle East Asian name order as well. If there aren't too many false positives it could be made the default regex. I'll replace it here now, so the report tomorrow or the day after will include these matches. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)- @Jon Harald Søby: OK, current results are pretty bad :D First two letters before slash should match any word beginning. Then the format should work fine. --Edgars2007 (talk) 06:46, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Edgars2007: Okay, fixed. 😊 Jon Harald Søby (talk) 08:40, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Jon Harald Søby: Thanks, now it looks fine. Looked at some 10 random items, all of them were wrong. Nice job :) If you could take a look at your talkpage at nowiki and help with that template we can call it Latvian-Norwegian collaboration week :) --Edgars2007 (talk) 07:07, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Edgars2007: Okay, fixed. 😊 Jon Harald Søby (talk) 08:40, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Jon Harald Søby: OK, current results are pretty bad :D First two letters before slash should match any word beginning. Then the format should work fine. --Edgars2007 (talk) 06:46, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
- @Edgars2007: Okay, this regex should do the trick:
- @Jon Harald Søby: yeah, sure. That would be fine. --Edgars2007 (talk) 14:35, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Edgars2007: An idea could be to change it temporarily for a day or two, so the constraint report will report on those errors, and then revert to the normal format? That way we can copy the results from that day to work on. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:28, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Jon Harald Søby: yes, that was my second option. But as there are more than 85tk items with this ID, I didn't want to download them :D Maybe you could perform such scan? --Edgars2007 (talk) 14:25, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Probably some changes required soon[edit]
Bill Mallon hints changes on sports-reference/oly. --62.159.86.77 12:55, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for letting us know. Just a note: even after sports-reference will be taken down, the statments do not need to be removed immediately. We probably need a new property for the new website once the situation is clearer, and it might be useful to have the old links still in place even if they are dead (we might want to remove the URL pattern when its dead, or something similar). —MisterSynergy (talk) 15:00, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, thanks for sharing. Well, let's hope the new statistics profiles will be good. And that they'll provide some profile redirect, so that adaption here goes more smoothly and our work done this year isn't thrown into garbage. --Edgars2007 (talk) 15:25, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
They took it offline today [1]. I’ll suggest to keep the claims for now, they might or might not be useful for the successor website they promise to make. Is there any possibility to mark this database offline in the meantime? —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Small update December 16, 2016[edit]
There's been an update :
Site Closing: We are sorry to inform you that due to a change to our data licensing agreement we are shutting down our Olympic site sometime during the early part of 2017. The providers of our dataset are working with another publisher to create an extensive site chronicling the history of the Olympic Movement. We will provide information here when that site is available. We will continue to have Olympic Ice Hockey Stats and Olympic Basketball Stats. More Information from Our Data Providers and their Future Plans.—Updated December 16, 2016.
Best regards Migrant (talk) 03:07, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
New information from January 2, 2017[edit]
From a reply to a questionnaire named Liam. There is kinda some new bits of information from BMallon :
Thanx for your kind words. I think it will be fine when the IOC takes over our data. We have our own private website, http://www.olympedia.org, which is the source for the sports-reference site. Olympedia is what the IOC is purchasing from us and we think Olympedia is even better than SR/olympics, although the styles are little different. I don’t think we can donate stuff to Wikidata because of contractural obligations with the IOC. However, I have been in contact with the Wikipedians who do Olympic stuff and talked to the IOC about this so that we can preserve links for them on Wikipedia so they don’t lose all their references. Hopefully we’ll be able to work that out.—January 2, 2017 at 8:31 PM
Best regards Migrant (talk) 01:25, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
New information from February 24, 2017[edit]
Question asked January 24, 2017
Thanks for your great work with olympic statistics. I am one of those who contribute to Wikipedia about mainly winter olympic results (preferably speed skating) and such related biographies, and I just wonder in what type of time frame do you expect to see these statistics published publicly elsewhere for instance at IOCs websites ? Do you think it will be available in time for the 2018 Olympic Winter Games, updated with the 2016 Olympic Summer Games results ?—Best regards Frank Skillinghaug
Answered February 24, 2017
Frank – no timeline for when our private site, Olympedia, goes public as the IOC statistical site. We have signed our contracts with the IOC and are now in discussions with the IT people so things are moving along. Sports-reference will stay open until the IOC site becomes available.—– Bill M
Best regards Migrant (talk) 18:41, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
2018 Winter Olympics and still no real database like the other one[edit]
It's been a more than a year since the first hint of this change of homeplace for olympic stats. Would it be an idea to contact IOC about this new database with reference to the above expressed links and answers, since it is no updates on this at the olympstats.com-site and it is in a building-up to a winterseason with only 159 days to go (per September 2., 2017) to 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang in Republic of Korea ? Best regards Migrant (talk) 14:37, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
- My recommendation would be to contact Bill Mallon of Sports-Reference.com. He has a Wikimedia account (User:Billbambam) with an email address at enwiki. —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:29, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
- Disagree there... I think it would be better to contact the right person at IOC to ask about this upcoming database with reference to what mr. Bill Mallon have said at Olympstats.com-site. But who would be the correct person to ask there ? Bill Mallon might have the answer for that though. Best regards Migrant (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
- Well, that’s basically the problem with asking “the IOC”. It is a big organization, and I doubt that they really care about our needs—unlike Mallon somewhat does. If he can’t help us it would still be possible to think about alternatives… —MisterSynergy (talk) 04:50, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah, thats right IOC are a bit bigger than an ordinary small-club organization, but they are only people like us others. So if we can find the right person at IOC I really think we should ask about a possible timeline for the database to be released at the new site ? Is this a task you as an administrator could or would take on to ask about and share the answer here ?
- BTW. Have you seen the newly, but not yet complete Olympic database at this site http://www.olympiandatabase.com/index.php ? Best regards Migrant (talk) 00:19, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- If you want to approach the IOC directly, you’ll probably just try a generic email address such as
info <at> olympic <dot> organd hope that they forward it to the right person. Larger organizations often do not expose information about staff positions such as database engineers to the public. IMO it is not relevant to be a Wikidata admin (which is an internal role); much more important is that you give your real name. - I have seen the other site, but I am not yet convinced whether it is useful. Many results are still missing. —MisterSynergy (talk) 05:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- If you want to approach the IOC directly, you’ll probably just try a generic email address such as
August 2018 update: now there is a new website[edit]
According to a blog post by Bill Mallon, the new website is now online at www.olympicchannel.com/en/athletes/. I have already created a property proposal for that website, cf. Wikidata:Property proposal/OlympicChannel athlete ID.
Any idea how to efficiently migrate identifiers? Is anyone in contact with Mallon regarding a mapping of old and new identifiers? —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- A dewiki user has contacted Bill Mallon, here is his response: link to dewiki. Might be of interest to some of you. —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:54, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
- Very, very nice. --Edgars2007 (talk) 05:52, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
- We now have Olympics.com athlete ID (P5815) for the new OlympicChannel website. —MisterSynergy (talk) 10:32, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Broken links[edit]
Quote from http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/: "Site Closing We are sorry to inform you that due to a change to our data licensing agreement we are shutting down our Olympic site effective December 1st, 2016. The providers of our dataset are working with another publisher to create an extensive site chronicling the history of the Olympic Movement. We will provide information here when that site is available. "
I set the formatter url to deprecated. Multichill (talk) 21:28, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
- At least some of these do not seem to be broken as of right now (was the website restored?) In any case we can change the formatter URL to use archive.org - prefix with "https://web.archive.org/web/*/" and it should be useable (the ones I tried had a handful of archive.org copies). ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:44, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
- I just reverted Multichill's deprecatet URL-setting to written off back to normal. It was correct yesterday, they were broken, but as you say they look fine today. User Multichill, Stryn and Sjoerddebruin can verify this. See also this blogpost about it... http://olympstats.com/2016/08/21/the-olymadmen-and-olympstats-and-sports-reference/ , it certainly looks like they are about to be moved to another site which looks to me as they re being a little bit more official data. Best regards Migrant (talk) 19:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
ASCII[edit]
SR has upgraded with Rio sportspeople - yeah! But they have screwed up encoding... Topic:U1cn8jd9grsmkl5h. Maybe somebody wants to talk with Bill? --Edgars2007 (talk) 18:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, I already added a lot of fresh profiles mid-October. Mind that there are also plenty of updates, additions and corrections of facts (such as person data) within the old profiles, so a re-comparison with Wikidata-values might be valuable.
- Regarding the encoding: I am not sure whether Bill Mallon can actually fix this problem. To my knowledge, he (+team) delivers data to sports-reference and this company then displays it on their website. The current output indicates that the backend is indeed UTF8 (or similar) encoded, which is good, but the output is for some reason mis-interpreted. I have developed a workaround for manual editing by c&p the odd input displayed on SR to a service such as 2cyr.com/decode/ with settings
Expert: source encoding: “UTF-8” displayed as: “ISO-8859-1” postfilter: “”. —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:14, 14 November 2017 (UTC)- Thanks, MS. Very valuable link. --Edgars2007 (talk) 13:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
- Another online tool I've found which works is http://www.iosart.com/tools/charset-fixer/?input-encoding=UTF-8. That URL selects the UTF-8 setting, so just copy/paste the text and click convert. -- Zyxw (talk) 23:59, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks, MS. Very valuable link. --Edgars2007 (talk) 13:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
This problem still persists on SR. In case anyone is interested (@Edgars2007?), there is also a handy Python module for exactly this mojibake (Q152869) problem: ftfy (“fixes text for you”). Once installed, it is very simple to use and works in many (but not all) cases. Some examples:
import ftfy
print(ftfy.fix_encoding('René Dybkær')) # from Q7313700 --- https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/dy/rene-dybkaer-1.html
> René Dybkær
print(ftfy.fix_encoding('ÐÐ¾Ð»Ð¾Ð´Ð¸Ð¼Ð¸Ñ ÐолодимиÑÐ¾Ð²Ð¸Ñ ÐлиÑко')) # from Q18797 --- https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/kl/wladimir-klitschko-1.html
> Володимир Володимирович Кличко
print(ftfy.fix_encoding('馬 ç³')) # from Q317851 --- https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/ma/ma-lin-2.html
> 馬 琳
print(ftfy.fix_encoding('سÙÙا٠اÙعبÙدÙ')) # from Q7553713 --- https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/la/sofiene-laabidi-1.html
> سفيان العبيدي
print(ftfy.fix_encoding('à¸à¸±à¸à¸£à¸à¸±à¸¢ à¸à¸¸à¸à¸£à¸à¸µ')) # from Q2029835 --- https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/bu/chatchai-butdee-1.html
> ฉัตรชัย บุตรดีŠ # Thai language fails completely!
print(ftfy.fix_encoding('×סתר ר×× ×©×××ר××')) # from Q434481 --- https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/sh/esther-shakhamorov-rot-1.html
> אסתר רוט שחמורוב
print(ftfy.fix_encoding('Milan Janša')) # from Q3313990 --- https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/ja/milan-jansa-1.html
> Milan JanÅ¡a # fails! Some few (East-European) characters fail as well, like Czech šŠ or Romanian îÎ, but most work
As you can see, this works with most scripts and letters, but it is advisable to glance over the outcome before further processing. —MisterSynergy (talk) 08:26, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
- Wow! Really nice. When I did this, I simply did manual work on finding "screwed up" letters and finding what they really should be like (that was very interesting morning, as I remember). --Edgars2007 (talk) 08:29, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
Single value violations[edit]
@Pichpich: that's not how we do things here. Both profiles are about the same person, so that isn't wrong claim. And in this way, we can keep track of those profiles (we have list of exceptions to single value violation, as you can see at the beginning of this page or property page itself). And also keeping the value tells, that there is no need to find match for this ID. For others: this is about Hamilton de Oliveira (Q5645270) and Antoon Uytterhoeven (Q20747957) (see history). --Edgars2007 (talk) 10:37, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
Single value violation management[edit]
To manage the plenty single value constraint violations, I have switched this property to the separator (P4155) method. The situation was no longer been handled properly by the software. This means that from now on there is not a single value constraint violation of there are different subject named as (P1810) qualifiers added to the multiple Sports-Reference identifiers in an item. I am currently adding those qualifiers for all existing single value constraint violations. —MisterSynergy (talk) 23:00, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Outdated profiles management[edit]
As some of you might now, SR's update process is a bit complicated. The OlyMADmen group around Bill Mallon does the research, and occasionally they push updates to sports-reference.com, which apparently is nothing but a web hosting company for them. During an upgrade, old versions of the profiles are simply overwritten with new versions. Unfortunately, the identifiers are not really 100% stable, thus the following things can happen when an identifier itself was updated:
- Profile at old identifier remains on server (some of their database updates), with or without stylesheets, and often containing incomplete or outdated information
- Alternatively: profile at old identifier does not remain on server (other database updates), leaving a dead link
- Identifiers are rarely re-used for other athletes
In the past weeks I updated almost 1000 SR identifiers to the most recent form, for cases where the identifier used here in Wikidata was outdated (which means: the identifier is no longer listed on the SR athletes index). Situation right now is:
- There are only two items with more than one listed profile (Victoria Wright (Q518305) and Nimrod Shapira Bar-Or (Q2898896)); these are true duplicates in the SR database, so if someone has contact to them, please report this.
- There are two SR profiles which are apparently broken (ko/nozomi-komuro-1 and
nd/aminata-ndong-1(fixed)). Both are not listed on the index, but this seems to be an error (can also be reported to SR) - All ~126k other items using this property have one bestrank identifier which is listed at the SR athletes index, i.e. up-to-date versions of the profiles.
- In case of multiple identifiers (of which only one is currently valid), I have used ranks to prefer the current value. If there is more than one identifier in an item, all SR identifier claims have subject named as (P1810) separator qualifiers.
- In some cases, profiles formerly published at SR are no longer listed in the SR athletes index. This typically happens if they find out that someone withdrew due to illness before the competition started, or if someone was a team member in a team sport, but did not have active participation during the entire Olympic tournament. SR does not cover these participants any longer. I have used preferred no value Help claims to indicate that the former identifiers with normal rank are outdated (query to find these cases).
—MisterSynergy (talk) 20:18, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment seems like exemplary approach even for people not interested in the topic. @Magnus Manske: what do you think? --- Jura 20:50, 1 October 2018 (UTC)- updated again —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:14, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
A Notice About This Site Closing (by March 1, 2020)[edit]
Last week, https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/d.html has been updated as follows:
Update (December 31, 2019)
I know this notice has been up for at least three years now, but we are moving servers in Q1 of 2020 and the olympics site will not be making that move and all pages and data will be removed. The OlyMadMen who provide the data for this site are working with the IOC to produce a new site. We have been maintaining this site gratis for the past two years and have earned no income from these pages. Any questions or comments should be directed to OlyMadMen.
I will ask Bill and Jeroen whether they can suggest how we should move on. --RonaldH (talk) 10:34, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the update!
We do already have an identifier for the "new site" that they set up with the IOC, see Olympics.com athlete ID (P5815). It is in use on some ~3.500 item pages, but this is way less than we have Sports-Reference.com Olympic athlete ID (archived) (P1447) identifiers (~125.000, which corresponds to 92% coverage of all Sports-Reference profiles). If the OlyMadMen can provide a mapping table "SR URL --> Olympic Channel URL", we'd be able to update the links in Wikidata within a day or so, and Wikipedias can make use of the data here to update the majority of their links as well by repurposing the templates in Template:Sports reference (Q10964954) (and some other more general templates). —MisterSynergy (talk) 10:48, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for the offer, MisterSynergy! There are two aspects we have to consider in the context of Olympic Channel: one is indeed the mapping between the old and the new URL's, the second one is the granularity of the information provided via the new site. Unfortunately, there was no improvement compared to September 2018 (see also the last comment from User:Geher here): missing death dates, no results, no navigation possible to other athlete profiles or events. You may take https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/br/dan-brand-1.html and https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/athletes/detail/daniel-oliver-brand/ as evidence that the replacement will massively deteriorate the quality we are currently familiar with. Perhaps using the Webarchive links that are automatically generated (and enforcing the creation of new ones for the missing 8% profiles plus related pages) will help us to gain some time until the next Olympics and until the quality of the information provided via Olympic Channel meets the expectations? --RonaldH (talk) 12:27, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
- Those are indeed two aspects, and I think we should treat them separately.
The mapping table would be really valuable to save the efforts that we already spent into Sports-Reference identifiers, as we could probably reach a similar coverage for the new sites with ease and hopefully with a very low error rate. The addition of Olympics.com athlete ID (P5815) identifiers/links is the only task that we really need to do and have control over.
The quality of the new site, however, is not in our control. We can of course ask the OlyMadMen to add as much data as possible to the new site, but there are probably some requirements by the IOC (or OlympicChannel) about how it should look like. The old Sports-Reference site was pretty much a nerd setup with tons of detailed information; good for us Wikipedians as this is exactly the quality reference work that we need, but probably too much for an average reader. I wouldn't be surprised of the new site would never reach the level of detail of the old one.
For my field of work (rowing), I saved a local copy of all relevant ~7800 profiles from Sports-Reference a year ago using a crawler, in order to be able to review the latest versions of them once they go offline. It would technically not be difficult to do this with all ~135.000 profiles, but as I cannot publish that anywhere and I have little use for non-rowing stuff, it wouldn't help much and I don't want to use too many resources on their servers.
As far as I am aware, the actual database of Sports-Reference is not hosted at Sports-Reference.com anyways; they seem to have just some static files that they update occasionally. The real database seems to be located at www.olympedia.org, which is a login-only service with no registration form available (as far as I can see). Maybe we should ask whether they would allow us to have accounts there, or they can provide a reading mode? Maybe this would not be a citeable source then, but we'd be able to access the knowlegde at least. —MisterSynergy (talk) 12:53, 8 January 2020 (UTC)- I have reading access to olympedia.org since February 2017. It was offered to me by Bill Mallon and I thankfully accepted it. The layout is much better (no waste of screen space due to large tiles like "BORN", "MEASUREMENTS") and the site contains all the information we know from sports-reference.com and some more (e.g. version history, authors and sources). The events are separated from the athletes, i.e. the results can be reached via links but are not displayed with the profile. There we have a view similar to the Olympic Channel one, but with links to places (birth/death), Games edition, discipline, event, represented country. In addition, the search capabilities are much better than those of both sports-refremce.com (Unicode encoding problem for special characters outside the 7-bit ASCII range) and Olympic Channel (poor search algorithm implemented, try to find Dan Brand from the example above). I would prefer to have an improved public site rather than working with references to links that cannot be accessed by regular Wikipedia users. Let's not give up the hope, especially since Bill is also very supportive on this matter. --RonaldH (talk) 13:33, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
- As far as the saving of profile copies is concerned, I was referring to http://web.archive.org/save that can be used for the Olympic Athlete Directory pages listed here in combination with the activated flag "Save outlinks". Unfortunately, the tests I have just done only led to the backup of a subset of profile pages. I don't know how to influence that and I agree with you that it's a waste of resources as long as we see a chance to get comparable quality via the Olympic Channel. --RonaldH (talk) 15:12, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
- https://olympstats.com/2020/05/27/olympedia-now-open-to-the-public/ Avilena (talk) 08:40, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Those are indeed two aspects, and I think we should treat them separately.
- Thanks for the offer, MisterSynergy! There are two aspects we have to consider in the context of Olympic Channel: one is indeed the mapping between the old and the new URL's, the second one is the granularity of the information provided via the new site. Unfortunately, there was no improvement compared to September 2018 (see also the last comment from User:Geher here): missing death dates, no results, no navigation possible to other athlete profiles or events. You may take https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/br/dan-brand-1.html and https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/athletes/detail/daniel-oliver-brand/ as evidence that the replacement will massively deteriorate the quality we are currently familiar with. Perhaps using the Webarchive links that are automatically generated (and enforcing the creation of new ones for the missing 8% profiles plus related pages) will help us to gain some time until the next Olympics and until the quality of the information provided via Olympic Channel meets the expectations? --RonaldH (talk) 12:27, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
I now proposed to include Olympedia identifiers in Wikidata: Wikidata:Property proposal/Olympedia ID. Please comment over there. —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
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