Property talk:P4491

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Isidore scholar ID
identifier of a scholar on Isidore, a platform that collects links to scholarly documents and official texts

Applicable "stated in" value	Isidore (Q3391953)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	[^ ]+
Example	Bertrand Joly (Q41665925) → joly_bertrand Françoise Vielliard (Q38042966) → vielliard_francoise George Washington (Q23) → washington_george_auteur_du_texte no label (Q31729699) → 10670/2.xlh1rj
Source	https://isidore.science/
Formatter URL	https://isidore.science/a/$1
Tracking: usage	Category:Pages using Wikidata property P4491 (Q53747746)
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Most linked wikis Items with the most identifier properties Items with no other external identifier Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Database reports/Constraint violations/P4491 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 6,511 Main statement 6,051 92.9% of uses Qualifier 4 <0.1% of uses Reference 456 7% of uses
Search for values

[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P4491#Unique value, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value)

Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P4491#Single value, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P4491#Entity types

Format “[^ ]+”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)

List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P4491#Format, hourly updated report, SPARQL

Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as reference (Q54828450): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P4491#Scope, SPARQL

Pattern ^http://isni.org/isni/(\d{4})(\d{4})(\d{4})(\d{4})$ will be automatically replaced to \1 \2 \3 \4 and moved to ISNI (P213) property. Testing: TODO list

Pattern ^https?://www.idref.fr/(\d{8}[\dX])$ will be automatically replaced to \1 and moved to IdRef ID (P269) property. Testing: TODO list

What's the use of this property?

Why so many values are ORCID or other IDs? I think this is wrong and should be corrected. @Magnus Manske: why such edits? Infovarius (talk) 19:55, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

See below. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:10, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Format

Given the constraint violations at https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?oldid=617469229#%22Format%22_violations , I changed the accepted format to ...+. Not sure if this is really suitable for the external identifier datatype.
--- Jura 08:58, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

All those using an orcid.org URL, at least, appear to be bogus - ORCID iDs are not available to anyone who died before 2012. I've reported the matter to ORCID, and would expect such accounts to be suspended in due course. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:10, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. BTW Hsarrazin commented on Topic:U5fg54stfd5iszi8#flow-post-u5fljdwnlhaytoy9.
--- Jura 17:49, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

out of curiosity, I just checked Ludwig van Beethoven on ORCID and... https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3320-7713 so the https://www.rechercheisidore.fr/search/?author=http://orcid.org/0000-0003-3320-7713&keepParams seems to be technically correct... even if it's a total nonsense o_O

in many cases, on Isidore, I wonder whether those were created as author IDs or as subject IDs... --Hsarrazin (talk) 18:41, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

The ORCID records for Beethoven, and several others involved in this episode, have now been withdrawn by ORCID. However, it appears that many of the others are not related to bogus ORCID accounts, but simply misuse a (random?) ORCID iD. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:25, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

• As it seems to be more of a search string, shall we have this converted to string datatype?
  --- Jura 06:01, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Seems like this doesn't seem problematic. I will ask for conversion to string datatype.
    --- Jura 17:29, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
• I  Oppose changing the type to string. When looking at the item of an author, it makes sense for all information of how the author appears in other databases to be listed together in the section for external-ids. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 21:45, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

  Pigsonthewing, Hsarrazin, ChristianKl, Infovarius, Magnus Manske: for information. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 09:23, 17 June 2018 (UTC).

If I understand correctly the proposal of @Nomen ad hoc, Thierry Caro: is to limit this property only to the identifiers specific to ISIDORE and to put a constraint

⟨ P4491 ⟩ property constraint (P2302) ⟨ format constraint (Q21502404)    ⟩
format as a regular expression (P1793) ⟨ [a-z]*_[a-z]* ⟩

It seems to be a good idea, any objections? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 11:15, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

 Done but with [a-z]*[_a-z]* (since some identifiers don't have an underscore). Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 12:12, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Violations cleaned

Update: after one week of work (18-25 June), I've just finished cleaning all the format violations, removing through QuickStatements about 2000 main values and manually about 1000 references. --Epìdosis 11:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Relevance of this property

Hi all,

Pinging top user of this property @Reinheitsgebot, QuickStatementsBot, Magnus Manske, HeavyTony, Nomen ad hoc: and those who took part in the property proposal @ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Framawiki, Pigsonthewing, Fralambert:

Some months ago, GautierPoupeau asked questions about this property on Twitter on twitter. The first tweet pointing that these URL are not stable identifiers. After some tweets (most strangely not available anymore), the question was whether to keep this property or not ([1]) and to talk about it here. We forgot the last part, so here am I re-starting this discussion.

Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 09:24, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Salut VIGNERON, pour te répondre en quelques mots : effectivement, lorsque la propriété a été créée, les identifiants n'étaient pas stables (c'était ma faute, désolé). Mais la nouvelle mouture du site, qui a été mise en place il y a quelques semaines (postérieurement au message de G. Poupeau,sauf erreur), change AMHA tout, puisqu'elle propose effectivement des identifiants stables pour chaque auteur (évidemment, on n'est tout de même pas à l'abri des doublons ou autres bizarreries). Voir notamment ici. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 09:54, 10 February 2019 (UTC).