Talk:Q106571
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Autodescription — From Russia with Love (Q106571)
description: 1963 film directed by Terence Young
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Published in East Germany ?
[edit]do we have sources for that? --- Jura 22:06, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Jura1: I guess that MovieFex is not arguing that this movie was also published in East Germany (Q16957) on 14 February 1964. The reasons MovieFex gave in edit summaries were "Bundesrepublik Deutschland is the name of Germany" and "check d:Q183". It seems to me that MovieFex is not satisfied with Q713750's label "West Germany" and thinks that it's legitimate to use Q183 (Germany, or Federal Republic of Germany) as the 1964 publication place. If so, I disagree. Q713750 is more accurate than Q183 in this case and should be used here.--Neo-Jay (talk) 22:52, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay:@Jura1: There is no official term like West Germany or East Germany. Correct is Federal Republic of Germany (in German: Bundesrepublik Deutschland) or German Democratic Republic (in German: Deutsche Demokratische Republik). Germany in this form has been founded in 1949 and hasn't changed his polity since and is still lasting. The time between 1949-1990 is a historical period and has nothing to do with the correct classification. It might be similar with history of the United States from 1945 to 1964 (Q3137687) and nobody had the idea to classify films with this because it is "more accurate". -- MovieFex (talk) 20:10, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MovieFex: Q713750 is defined as an "instance of" (Property:P31) "sovereign state" (Q3624078) existing from 23 May 1949 to 2 October 1990 and "historical country" (Q3024240) since 3 October 1990. And "Federal Republic of Germany" is one of this item's aliases. It is another question whether the official name or the common name should be used as this item's label. If you disagree on its English label "West Germany", you may try to edit it or start a discussion on its talk page. But clearly Q713750 does not only refer to a historical period, but also refers to a (historical) sovereign state. I don't think that you can convince Wikidata community to remove this definition from Q713750. And it's not true that "nobody had the idea to classify films with this because it is 'more accurate'". IMDb uses "West Germany" as this film's publication place. Apparently I am not the only person in the world who has this idea. --Neo-Jay (talk) 00:37, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay:@Jura1: There is no official term like West Germany or East Germany. Correct is Federal Republic of Germany (in German: Bundesrepublik Deutschland) or German Democratic Republic (in German: Deutsche Demokratische Republik). Germany in this form has been founded in 1949 and hasn't changed his polity since and is still lasting. The time between 1949-1990 is a historical period and has nothing to do with the correct classification. It might be similar with history of the United States from 1945 to 1964 (Q3137687) and nobody had the idea to classify films with this because it is "more accurate". -- MovieFex (talk) 20:10, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay: IMDb is not the source, which has a historical value. -- MovieFex (talk) 00:47, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MovieFex: I just use IMDb as an example to clarify that it's not true that "nobody had the idea to classify films with this because it is 'more accurate'" (emphasis added). And as defined by Wikidata, Q713750 refers to a (historical) sovereign state, not just a historical period. By contrast, Q3137687 is defined as an "instance of" (Property:P31) "history of a country or state" (Q17544377), and is clearly not similar with Q713750. Taking Q713750 as just a historical period is your own personal point of view and not the Wikidata community's consensus. --Neo-Jay (talk) 00:59, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay: To bring that to conclusion: I did have explained above, as answer you refer to IMDB and Wikidata. You can discuss this at de:Diskussion:Deutschland, my part here is at the end. -- MovieFex (talk) 01:19, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MovieFex: Thanks for your discussion and I have not been convinced. And I don't think that this discussion on Wikidata has anything to do with a discussion on German Wikipedia. If no new opinion is raised here in ten days, I will revert your edit according to Wikidata community's consensus on the definition of Q713750. --Neo-Jay (talk) 01:30, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay: There is no consensus and if you will revert, I'll do so, too. You're obviously no history scientist, but you want to explain German history to me. I can tell you, this is absolutely unecessary. -- MovieFex (talk) 01:41, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MovieFex: There is a clear consensus on "what Q713750 refers to". If you want to change Q713750's definition, you can try. Before you successfully achieve your goal, Q713750 still clearly refers to a (historical) sovereign state and should be used here as the publication place of this film. Probably you are a great history scientist, but you should not place your own personal point of view on the definition of Q713750 above Wikidata community's consensus. I don't want to explain German history to you. What I do is repeating Q713750's actual definition, which is endorsed by Wikidata community. I am neutral on what Q713750 should refer to. If you successfully convince Wikidata community to change Q713750's definition to just a historical period and not a (historical) sovereign state, I will of course not revert your edit here. --Neo-Jay (talk) 07:14, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay: There is no consensus and if you will revert, I'll do so, too. You're obviously no history scientist, but you want to explain German history to me. I can tell you, this is absolutely unecessary. -- MovieFex (talk) 01:41, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MovieFex: Thanks for your discussion and I have not been convinced. And I don't think that this discussion on Wikidata has anything to do with a discussion on German Wikipedia. If no new opinion is raised here in ten days, I will revert your edit according to Wikidata community's consensus on the definition of Q713750. --Neo-Jay (talk) 01:30, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay: To bring that to conclusion: I did have explained above, as answer you refer to IMDB and Wikidata. You can discuss this at de:Diskussion:Deutschland, my part here is at the end. -- MovieFex (talk) 01:19, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MovieFex: I just use IMDb as an example to clarify that it's not true that "nobody had the idea to classify films with this because it is 'more accurate'" (emphasis added). And as defined by Wikidata, Q713750 refers to a (historical) sovereign state, not just a historical period. By contrast, Q3137687 is defined as an "instance of" (Property:P31) "history of a country or state" (Q17544377), and is clearly not similar with Q713750. Taking Q713750 as just a historical period is your own personal point of view and not the Wikidata community's consensus. --Neo-Jay (talk) 00:59, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Neo-Jay: IMDb is not the source, which has a historical value. -- MovieFex (talk) 00:47, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
Place of publication
[edit]@MovieFex: You kept changing the publication place of 14 February 1964 from Q713750 (West Germany, or Federal Republic of Germany 1949-1990) to Q183 (Germany, or Federal Republic of Germany). The reasons you gave in edit summaries were "Bundesrepublik Deutschland is the name of Germany" and "check d:Q183". I don't understand your reasoning. Q713750 is defined as a sovereign state existing from 1949 to 1990, and can also been seen as Q183's part of history. Although it is also acceptable to use Q183 as the value of the publication place of 14 February 1964, Q713750 is apparently more accurate. You edit should be reverted. --Neo-Jay (talk) 22:16, 4 June 2019 (UTC)