Talk:Q11446

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Autodescription — ship (Q11446)

description: large buoyant watercraft
Useful links:
Classification of the class ship (Q11446)  View with Reasonator View with SQID
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⟨ship⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1)
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Type of the class itself?[edit]

@Infovarius: For what I can understand, ship is a type of vehicle, not a type of ship. --Horcrux92 (talk) 09:58, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say that q2235308 is a type of "kind of" ships, i.e. something similar to ships. --Infovarius (talk) 15:14, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This seems an interpretation of yours. --Horcrux92 (talk) 15:20, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Horcrux92, Infovarius: this seems harmless but also not particularly useful. Infovarius, is there some language issue here, where ship (Q11446) in some languages does not encompass everything that would be an instance of an instance of ship type (Q2235308)? ArthurPSmith (talk) 02:06, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Please find a word "Schiff" in a single sitelink of ship type (Q2235308). --Infovarius (talk) 15:55, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ship (Q11446) is mathematical object (Q246672)?[edit]

Now we have: ship (Q11446) -> watercraft (Q1229765) -> watercraft type (Q16335899) -> metaclass (Q19361238) -> metaclass (Q19478619) -> class (Q217594) -> mathematical object (Q246672). --Fractaler (talk) 10:33, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Fractaler:
If A is instance of B and B is subclass of C, then A is instance of C.
If A is instance of B and B is instance of C, then A is not necessarily instance of C (it often isn't).
Otherwise, anything that is instance of "type of something" would be a mathematical object (Q246672). --Horcrux92 (talk) 13:35, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Horcrux92: ok, then so: ship (Q11446) is watercraft (Q1229765), watercraft (Q1229765) is watercraft type (Q16335899), watercraft type (Q16335899) is metaclass (Q19361238), metaclass (Q19361238) is metaclass (Q19478619), metaclass (Q19478619) is class (Q217594), class (Q217594) is mathematical object (Q246672). --Fractaler (talk) 13:42, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hm... interesting. Mathematically that kind of idea is called as w:en:transitive relation. If we think about our ordinary concepts, for example like "ship" or "class", it is not weird that generating a strange-"global"-relationship (just like Fractaler raised as above), from legit-"local"-relationships. This would be a variation of w:en:Sorites paradox. --Was a bee (talk) 13:49, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Paradoxes (one of the examples of chaos) is a consequence of homonymy (Q21701659). Paradoxes are always built on the use of terms that do not have a unique definition (homonym (Q160843)). As in the case of WD: now ship (Q11446) is 1) ship type (Q2235308); 2) watercraft (Q1229765); 3) vessel (Q16391167) --Fractaler (talk) 16:54, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In what meaning do you use the term "homonymy"? If you want to say "ship has various meaning", it is obvious by checking dictionary. Most words, especially words which are used in daily life conversation, change its meaning depends on context. This is basic nature of words. But this seems not related to the generation of "strange-chain" as you raised above. Even if we split "ship" page into some non-homonym pages (for example, ship A, ship B, ....), some of it would have the same "strange-chain" yet. So this seems different matter.--Was a bee (talk) 12:30, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When communicating, for example, the ambiguity (homonymy) of a term is eliminated by context. Here we have an artificial problem, which the Wikidata editors (Q28859214) themselves created. They why they decided here (and they stop all attempts for another approach) that one can mix terms with different numbers - single and multiple (although, for example, in the case of humanity (Q1156970)/human (Q5) they did not, which indicates the ill-considered nature of such an approach). Thus, first, the ship and ships are different terms. Now ship (Q11446) is homonym (Q160843): 1) ship; 2)ships. The group consists of the hull of the ship? So we have "ships" (ship group), which consists of components/objects/elements - ship. Ship (large buoyant watercraft) is a watercraft. Fractaler (talk) 14:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Fractaler, Horcrux92: - Horcrux92 is right, the only transitivity is via P279, P31 is not transitive (in itself, though it is transitive over iterations of P279). This is reflected in the automated subclass hierarchy shown above, where you may note mathematical object (Q246672) does not appear. ArthurPSmith (talk) 02:08, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand, ship (Q11446) is ship type (Q2235308) or is not? --Fractaler (talk) 09:28, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ships of the same name in a navy[edit]

The Royal Navy and others reuse ship names, to carry on their tradition. Should the sequence be shown with follows and followed_by properties, or not_to_be_confused_with, or something else? In both cases the repeated name is not instantly useful, but I prefer the follows approach as it provides the sequence. Vicarage (talk) 23:36, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish translation[edit]

Banderas Please do not change the Spanish links. "Ship" is translated as "Barco". See https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/ship. And look at the image at https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barco. It is exactly the same as the image at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship#Nomenclature. Neel.arunabh (talk) 17:59, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neel.arunabh "Barco" is a general definition (boat), and can be a small or a large vessel. A ship (large vesssel) is a "Buque".--Banderas (talk) 18:20, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But look at https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/ship. "barco" can also be a translation of "ship". Plus, the image at image at https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barco is exactly the same as the image at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship#Nomenclature. Neel.arunabh (talk) 18:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Neel.arunabh: I see some small vessel images at es:Barco too, e.g. Canoe. And what about es:Buque now? --Infovarius (talk) 16:30, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking about that. "buque" must be a synonym for "barco" as mentioned at https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/ship. Neel.arunabh (talk) 16:42, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Neel.arunabh: So is canoe "barco"? --Infovarius (talk) 19:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Infovarius: "Canoe" is "Canoa". See https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/canoe. Neel.arunabh (talk) 20:02, 27 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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