Talk:Q244852
Autodescription — Gediminas (Q244852)
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@Guccee: I ask you to indicate the historical source of such a coat of arms of Gediminas. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 09:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- No image of the Giedymin coat of arms has survived to the present day. However, the description of the image of one of his seals from 1323 is known. The seal featured an engraved man with long hair sitting on a throne, holding a crown in his right hand and a scepter in his left hand. The vectorized coat of arms was created based on the description of the image from the seal. The actual colors are unknown, they were added according to the author's own concept. In order to present the image of Gediminas coat of arms as faithfully as possible, the author used images from the seals of Gediminas' grandchildren; Witold Kiejstutowicz and Zygmunt Kiejstutowicz. You can read more about it here: [1] Guccee (talk) 09:35, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
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Seal of Witold Kiejstutowicz -
Seal of Zygmunt Kiejstutowicz
- It's all wonderful. But there is no need to invent coats of arms for historical figures and pass them off as real ones. It's called: forgery. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 14:59, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- There is an article by a Belarusian researcher who claims that Gediminas had an image of a rider with a spear in his hand on the seal. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 14:59, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Inventions are not based on descriptions of images of the original seals. It could be a counterfeit to create a coat of arms based on the guesses of a "Belarusian prospector" who just thinks that Giedymin had an image of a rider with a spear in his hand on the seal Guccee (talk) 15:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Here is a photograph of this seal. The source is listed below the photo. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 11:21, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
- Once again, I ask you to quote from an authoritative source, in which exactly such a description of the image of the coat of arms is given. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 15:28, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- I dont have time for this at the moment. I'm in work. But it seems like you got a lot of free time so you can search for your own here: [2] Guccee (talk) 17:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- I found a description of the seal (in Lithuanian), but did not find a description of the coat of arms.
Can you give a specific quote where exactly such a coat of arms is described? --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 11:23, 25 May 2022 (UTC)Valdymo klausimais Gediminas tardavosi su savo taryba, kurią sudarė apie 20 asmenų (p. 123). Taryba rinkdavosi valdovo pilies menėje. Rūmai tikriausiai stovėjo Gedimino kalno papėdėje nuo dabartinės Arkikatedros pusės. Didysis kunigaikštis turėjo savo antspaudą, pridedamą prie laiško, taip patvirtinant jo tikrumą. Gedimino antspaudas yra aprašytas tvirtinant laiškų nuorašus Liubeke. Vaškinis antspaudas turėjo apvadą iš dvylikos kampų, o apvado viduryje – pavaizduotą ilgais plaukais vyrą, sėdintį soste ir laikantį dešinėje rankoje karūną, kairėje – skeptrą. Aplink vyrą įrėžtas kryžius ir užrašas lotynų kalba iš keturiasdešimt vienos raidės; S DEI GRACIA GEDEMINNI LETHWINOR ET RUTKENOR REG („Dievo malone lietuvių ir rusų karaliaus Gedimino anstpaudas“)6
- I found a description of the seal (in Lithuanian), but did not find a description of the coat of arms.
- I dont have time for this at the moment. I'm in work. But it seems like you got a lot of free time so you can search for your own here: [2] Guccee (talk) 17:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Inventions are not based on descriptions of images of the original seals. It could be a counterfeit to create a coat of arms based on the guesses of a "Belarusian prospector" who just thinks that Giedymin had an image of a rider with a spear in his hand on the seal Guccee (talk) 15:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Литва[edit]
Дорогой Лобачев Владимир, а почему нельзя указать родную страну? (у нас нас на викисурсе ошибка выдается, когда у человека она не указана) Или вы имеете в виду, что это должна быть не Литва? Demetrius Talpa (talk) 07:53, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Коллега, ответьте мне сначала на вопрос «в какой стране жил князь?». В Великом княжестве Литовском, существовавшем с середины XIII века по 1795 год; или в Литовской республике, ставшей независимой от Российской империи в 1918 году? И князем какого государства он был? -- Лобачев Владимир (talk) 10:27, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Т.е. "Великое княжество Литовское" можно поставить? Это годится. Demetrius Talpa (talk) 13:28, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Если Великое княжество Литовское как страну, которой он владел правил, то да. А вот институт гражданства был появился значительно позже. Ну раз для таких личностей как Charlemagne (Q3044) и Peter the Great (Q8479) указали... Если настаиваете — поставьте. По крайней мере это не будет явным вводом читателей в заблуждение, а скорее неточное применение термина к историческим личностям. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 14:56, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Спасибо! Demetrius Talpa (talk) 15:59, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Если Великое княжество Литовское как страну, которой он владел правил, то да. А вот институт гражданства был появился значительно позже. Ну раз для таких личностей как Charlemagne (Q3044) и Peter the Great (Q8479) указали... Если настаиваете — поставьте. По крайней мере это не будет явным вводом читателей в заблуждение, а скорее неточное применение термина к историческим личностям. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 14:56, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Т.е. "Великое княжество Литовское" можно поставить? Это годится. Demetrius Talpa (talk) 13:28, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- Коллега, Demetrius Talpa, а можете ссылку сбросить, где в «викисурсе» ошибка выдается? --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 14:59, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
- ссылка Те, у кого не заполнено это поле, попадабт в "авторы неизвестно из какой страны" (просто есть и на самом деле такие, про которых неизвестно, а есть те, где всего-навсего не заполнено) Demetrius Talpa (talk) 15:59, 25 August 2022 (UTC)