Talk:Q35034452

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Autodescription — locality of Berlin (Q35034452)

description: part of a borough of Berlin without own administration
Useful links:
Classification of the class locality of Berlin (Q35034452)  View with Reasonator View with SQID
For help about classification, see Wikidata:Classification.
Parent classes (classes of items which contain this one item)
Subclasses (classes which contain special kinds of items of this class)
⟨locality of Berlin⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1)
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See also

WikiProject Germany

Bezirk vs. Ortsteil[edit]

Currently

Each Ortsteil is located in exactly one Bezirk, if the Ortsteil is stated, the Bezirk is superfluous. Additionally each place in Berlin is located in at least one Ortsteil, so one could generally replace the Bezirk with the more precise Ortsteil. Also the official Adress Information System of Berlin allways states the postal code and the Ortsteil, so this information is easily to verify.

If Ortsteil is stored in P131 then P276 is free to be used for smaller entities, which not fully cover all of Berlin, like Ortslage, Kiez, Viertiel, e.g. Soldiner Kiez (Q15128755). P131 is offered as suggestion when creating new items, so it is easy to directly add the more precise Ortsteil.

It is a lot of extra work and useless usage of storage space to store the Bezirk twice (directly and indirectly via Ortsteil).

There are also other official entities which could be added like Planungsraum (from which Bezirksregion and Progonoseraum and again Bezirk can be derived).

This change affects items that have Berlin cultural heritage ID (P2424), Berlin protected area ID (P6280), Berlin Street ID (P10451) and maybe many more. The number will grow, e.g. it seems there are less than 30% of all streets in Wikidata.

@MB-one:: what do you think? BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 22:08, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

locality of Berlin (Q35034452) is not an administrative but a purely statistical entity, thus the differentiation between located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) and location (P276) statements. MB-one (talk) 22:30, 7 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Natürlich ist es administrativ, es werden wie von BBBB erwähnt Adressen damit verwaltet. Auch Benutzung für statistische Zwecke, ist administrativ, denn dabei werden Daten verwaltet. Und nein, es ist wirklich keine purely statistische Einheit, ich bin in Berlin geboren und wir nutzen die Namen der Ortsteile auch außerhalb von Statistik. Danke. 89.12.52.189 18:13, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I am also from Berlin and can confirm it is not "a purely statistical entity" BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 01:15, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Does it have it's government/townhall etc.? Hjart (talk) 08:34, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, the locality of Berlin (Q35034452) have no own government nor administration, only the borough of Berlin (Q821435) have that. MB-one (talk) 11:25, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In that case it's a kind of Ortsteil (Q253019) Hjart (talk) 13:25, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your source? BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 00:37, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately there's a ton of text on the located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) discussion page, but this is basically the logic we're following everywhere else. In Denmark for example the smallest located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) are the municipality of Denmark (Q2177636). Cities like i.e. Aarhus (Q25319) or Odense (Q25331) or districts of Copenhagen like Nørrebro (Q2006997) are not considered located in the administrative territorial entity (P131), hovewer large they may be. Hjart (talk) 07:38, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please refrain from edits like you did today. 89.12.83.160 20:49, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]


https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q89589327&diff=1151615375&oldid=1151615337 - location = Bezirk Reinickendorf BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 21:00, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ortsteil als Wort[edit]

Es ist nur ein Wort, es ist Zufall, es könnte auch Stadtteil, Bezirksteil, Bezirksregion, Stadtviertel, Distrikt oder sonstewie heißen. Daher ist ein Berliner Ortsteil, definiert durch Gesetze und Bezirksentscheidung keine Unterklasse von dem deutschen Begriff "Ortsteil".

Es ist eine "ausgedachte" Gebietseinheit, nur davon ist es Unterklasse. Dass diese in Wikidata nach Ländern unterklassiert ist seltsam, aber es wird ja seltsamerweise eine Eigenschaft nur für Land weitverbreitet an verschiedenste Objekte angeheftet. 89.12.52.189 18:04, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

shares border with[edit]

shares border with was broken, I tried to fix it : https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property:P47&diff=1590501399&oldid=1587536540 but no result yet. BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 01:14, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

administrative territorial entity - territorial entity for administration purposes, with or without its own local government[edit]

@MB-one, Hjart: you removed this item from the classification tree leading to Q56061, which is named "administrative territorial entity" and has the description "territorial entity for administration purposes, with or without its own local government".

Please provide evidence that your edits are correct before removing the item again from that classification tree. BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 01:04, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q35034452&diff=1591229733&oldid=1591070852 @Hjart: you did it again, claiming "This is only for areas with own government". But that is not true. BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 15:22, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin,
locality of Berlin (Q35034452) aren't a subclass of (P279) of administrative territorial entity (Q56061) since, they have no administrative but purely statistical purposes.
Cheers,
--MB-one (talk) 13:10, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where is your evidence for "purely statistical purposes", have you ever looked into Berlin Address-Directories? And since when are "statistical purposes" not administrative purposes? 89.12.83.160 16:33, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin they have no administration, since they are adminstratively and legally just a certain area of their respective borough of Berlin (Q821435). MB-one (talk) 04:14, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Zwei Säulen[edit]

Hi BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin, sorry, ich habe die Verwaltungseinheit wieder auf den Beirk Mitte geändert (Verwaltungseinheit=Bezirk laut Beschreibung von P131). Tiergarten ist nur der Ortsteil. Gruß Singlespeedfahrer (talk) 05:32, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Singlespeedfahrer: "located in the administrative territorial entity (P131)" and "administrative territorial entity (Q56061)" the latter having description "territorial entity for administration purposes, with or without its own local government". Please revert. BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 16:38, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok thx. Nearly all Berlin related objects use the "Bezirk" for P131. Don't know what we should do. Gruß Singlespeedfahrer (talk) 17:37, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Singlespeedfahrer, Pfadintegral: I think it should all be changed to Ortsteil, leaving location to less precise items like Kieze or whatever. It can be done via a batch operation. Currently each Ortsteil is located in only one Bezirk, so the Bezirk can be derived from the Ortsteil. It's a graph database, but some people repeat information on individual items, where it can be derived from higher level items. Several items strictly located in Berlin have time zone information, but I have not seen anyone capturing the daylight saving time difference between West-Berlin and the GDR that *maybe* existed for a less than a year or so. If this is not stored it is sufficient to store time zone information on the Berlin item. Fewer statements per item - without losing information - means easier editing. BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 02:52, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
PS: There are squares and other items that have located in Berlin, I change them to Ortsteil, if I see it. [1] BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 02:56, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Levels below Ortsteil[edit]

Examples for other use of P276:

  1. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q60465334&type=revision&diff=1596256254&oldid=1561193786 - Gutspark Britz
  2. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q111240601&type=revision&diff=1596136458&oldid=1594473955 - Bauhaus Archive

BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 00:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  1. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q2203529&action=history
curprev  15:33, 7 January 2019‎ MB-one talk contribs‎  8,436 bytes 0‎  ‎Changed claim: located in the administrative territorial entity (P131): Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf (Q158095) undothank (restore)
curprev  15:33, 7 January 2019‎ MB-one talk contribs‎  8,436 bytes +429‎  ‎Created claim: location (P276): (Q831932) undothank (restore)
curprev  13:22, 5 October 2018‎ Nvrandow talk contribs‎  8,007 bytes +429‎  ‎Created claim: named after (P138): Rüdesheim am Rhein (Q628118) undothank (restore)
curprev  13:18, 5 October 2018‎ Nvrandow talk contribs‎  7,578 bytes −412‎  ‎Removed claim: located in the administrative territorial entity (P131): Wilmersdorf (Q693628) undothank (restore)
curprev  13:17, 5 October 2018‎ Nvrandow talk contribs‎  7,990 bytes +412‎  ‎Created claim: located in the administrative territorial entity (P131): (Q831932) undothank (restore)

BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 02:42, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

English term[edit]

Currently the English term in Wikidata is "locality".

Other sources from the site berlin.de

Constitution:

BerlinBerlinBerlinBerlin (talk) 18:09, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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