Talk:Q467374

eFootball is not part of the Pro Evolution Soccer (PES) series

Someone changed this Object from Pro Evolution Soccer to eFootball sometime back. Big mess. The thing is, eFootball is not part of the Pro Evolution Soccer (PES) series, in fact eFootball is no series, its a game that will be updated regularly via patches technically and in terms of content, there will be no annual new game as we seen in PES oder EAs Fifa. How do we fix this mess and separate PES and eFootball again? Scip. (talk) 12:17, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Moved from User talk:Kirilloparma#Q467374

Hello Kirilloparma, you did a full revert on Q467374. I would do summarys but that is not possible at Wikidata, so i used the discussion section of the topic. I will explain it here again. "Someone changed this Object from Pro Evolution Soccer to eFootball sometime back. Big mess. The thing is, eFootball is not part of the Pro Evolution Soccer (PES) series, in fact eFootball is no series, its a game that will be updated regularly via patches technically and in terms of content, there will be no annual new game as we seen in PES oder EA FIFA." So i started to fix it, there is still a lot to do, here on Wikidata und all the Wikipedias. In short: eFootball is not part of the Pro Evolution Soccer series. Please restore all the changes i made so far. Thank you Scip. (talk) 08:38, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Kirilloparma, i want to remind you on that topic, as i see you continue edit again on Wikidata, but i still got no answer regarding Q467374. I am still waiting until it is restored, so i can continue to work on PES and eFootball Scip. (talk) 10:13, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

@Scip.: > Someone changed this Object from Pro Evolution Soccer to eFootball sometime back. Big mess.

Alright, first of all it's not a mess since the name was changed correctly and on the contrary, these non-consensual and completely incomprehensible removal of yours that you made here on Wikidata, like in other Wikimedia projects, can be called a mess. [1], [2] Both of these edits seem to me pure vandalism.

> The thing is, eFootball is not part of the Pro Evolution Soccer (PES) series, in fact eFootball is no series...

> In short: eFootball is not part of the Pro Evolution Soccer series.

Secondly, the statement that eFootball is not a video game series is absolutely not true and the references that you for some reason deleted clearly confirms that. There was a statement with reference to a reliable source (IGN), in which it is clearly noted that the series is changing its name, but for some reason you removed it. And behold this edit can be considered as vandalism... Please explain why you removed the reference as well as other valid statements?

> So i started to fix it, there is still a lot to do, here on Wikidata und all the Wikipedias.

Now please explain why you started here on Wikidata, as well as in other Wikimedia projects (like Wikipedia), supposedly "fixing" something? Why do you even decide for Wikipedia editors how they need to fix something? Who said that eFootball is not a series when there are reliable sources confirming the opposite? Here I absolutely agree with enwiki contributor Sandstein, who already hinted to you that if you disagree with something, then discuss it on the talk page by presenting sources that say otherwise, instead of making such controversial edits to Wikidata, as well as in other Wikimedia projects (cross-wiki). And no, I will not restore your non-consensual version. You need to continue a discussion here first before moving on. How do we fix this mess and separate PES and eFootball again? - If you want to suggest for example splitting the series into "PES" and "eFootball" as two separate items then we can talk about it, but for now please refrain from deleting valid stuff from both items.

By the way, this is not the first time I've seen you remove valid statements from Wikidata. Here is a recent example of your obscure removals ([3], [4]). And here's another ([5], [6], [7]). I consider this to be unacceptable behavior. Please familiarize with Wikidata policies and guidelines first before removing valuable information here on Wikidata.

P.S. In the Italian Wikipedia currently there is an article called eFootball 2023, please tell me, do I understand correctly that you now will remove the sitelink to itwiki in this item and go there (I mean itwiki) to start supposedly "fixing" what? Don't you think that the participants of the Italian Wikipedia know better what to do in this case, or do you think that it is you who should put things in order there? Please note that the item itself also contains identifiers like Metacritic, are you going to delete them too? Regards. Kirilloparma (talk) 06:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Kirilloparma

I just now saw that you moved the discussion. I somehow didn't got any ping oder message. Sry

> Secondly, the statement that eFootball is not a video game series is absolutely not true and the references that you for some reason deleted clearly confirms that. There was a statement with reference to a reliable source (IGN), in which it is clearly noted that the series is changing its name, but for some reason you removed it. And behold this edit can be considered as vandalism... Please explain why you removed the reference as well as other valid statements?

eFootball was released in 2021 and it was not just a disaster for Konami by releasing a unfinished game, but it was in general a poorly executed marketing and PR work, resulting in what i would call a confusion and mess regarding the game. With the Patch v2.0.0 from August 2022 for example the Name of the Version went from eFootball 2022 to eFootball 2023. Its all patching and updating the game and the current version is eFootball 2023 v2.5.1 dated April 20, 2023. Does that make it a series? No, its still just eFootball, as you can also notice by the main Logo on the Website, it shows eFootball and not eFootball 2023. Also the registered trademarks and sponsorship-deals clearly show its not a series.

https://www.konami.com/efootball/en/page/2023/season1_patch-notes_v2-00

https://www.konami.com/efootball/en/topic/news/list

https://www.konami.com/efootball/en/page/2023/season4_patch-notes_v2-50

> Now please explain why you started here on Wikidata, as well as in other Wikimedia projects (like Wikipedia), supposedly "fixing" something? Why do you even decide for Wikipedia editors how they need to fix something?

A lot of Infoxboxes on Wikipedia and also searchengines gather and display Informations from Wikidata, so i try to provide the correct information through Wikidata by helping to correct data on Wikidata.

> By the way, this is not the first time I've seen you remove valid statements from Wikidata. Here is a recent example of your obscure removals ([3], [4]). And here's another ([5], [6], [7]). I consider this to be unacceptable behavior. Please familiarize with Wikidata policies and guidelines first before removing valuable information here on Wikidata.

There was a reason for that. Two infoboxes refused to adopt the current UE logo. When they finally did, my edit here on Wikidata was rv already. Its a bit harsh to accuse me of vandalism. Nothing is further from my mind.

> P.S. In the Italian Wikipedia currently there is an article called eFootball 2023, please tell me, do I understand correctly that you now will remove the sitelink to itwiki in this item and go there (I mean itwiki) to start supposedly "fixing" what? Don't you think that the participants of the Italian Wikipedia know better what to do in this case, or do you think that it is you who should put things in order there? Please note that the item itself also contains identifiers like Metacritic, are you going to delete them too?

see above

Best regards and only the best whises. Scip. (talk) 12:06, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Scip.: So instead of explaining why you removed a reliable source where it is clearly noted that the series has changed its name and to consider the idea of possibly splitting both series into two separate items and eventually find a consensus, you continue this kind of disruptive behavior (see your reverts [8], [9]) despite the fact that I asked you to refrain from non-consensual removals!? Well, nice! I think that a little more and I will submit a request to the administrators in order to consider your unconstructive behavior.

Could you please reverted your edits and continue this discussion to reach a consensus? It is also worth considering that it was you who started this discussion and you are not even able to explain why you deleted a reliable source where it clearly says about changing the name of a series. At this point, I have no choice but to leave this discussion and restore the consensus version (that is, this one), but before doing this, I will still answer to your disruptive reverts, and also answer your comment.

> + official source: https://www.konami.com/games/eu/en/topics/15974/

Seriously? Well, you've just provided a source where, Konami (developer) herself clearly noted that the series has changed its name (screenshots: [10], [11], [12])! Before your non-consensual edits, by the way, I already added a reliable source back in 2021 where the name change of the video game series was noted, but for some reason you removed it, thank you very much... This may be considered vandalism on your part. Question: you will still deny that the eFootball series does not exist, despite the fact that in your non-consensual revert you provided the source to the developer himself, who talks about the eFootball series several times? And finally answer: why did you remove a link to a reliable source? By this revert, you only exacerbated the situation, to be honest...

> + i removed deadwood...

No, you not only removed non-working links from here, but also a valid statement. Revert this non-consensual edit please. Now about video links. These video trailers have become private and are no longer displayed, but this does not mean that they should be deleted in this way. Ever heard of Help:Ranking? These videos once worked and could be played, so this is a true statement, please undo your edit and put the proper rank on the affected statements so that it is clear that they are no longer available.

> ...and added the official social media handles

Here, you have made a huge mistake. These social networks are for the entire eFootball and PES video game series, not just one game as a whole. For example, the Twitter account that has existed since 2009 was always called "officialpes", and then it was renamed to "play_eFootball" (the old one was deactivated and redirects to the new one), that is, this is an account for entire video game series, and not for some particular game. See also archival copies. This happens with the FIFA series as well. You have moved all social networks that are specifically for a video game series, and not for one specific game, so please return everything back to where it was.

> With the Patch v2.0.0 from August 2022 for example the Name of the Version went from eFootball 2022 to eFootball 2023. Its all patching and updating the game...

I know that this is a game that is now updated through patches and divided into seasons, but this does not negate the fact that the name of the series has changed, especially when there are several reliable sources confirming this fact.

> Does that make it a series? No, its still just eFootball, as you can also notice by the main Logo on the Website, it shows eFootball and not eFootball 2023.

Actually, the answer here is yes. You can deny as much as you like that the eFootball series does not exist, but everything goes against you: sources where the change in the name of the game series is clearly noted (see [13], [14], [15], [16]) and identifiers where eFootball separately exists. Some databases, such as Mobygames and Gamefaqs, combine several titles of the series at the same time, but Giant Bomb or Glitchwave, on the contrary, use the name eFootball, so your arguments that eFootball is not a video game series of are absolutely not valid. Ideally, I think it would be better to consider the idea here of possibly splitting the series into two separate items, rather than deleting valid statements like you did.

> Also the registered trademarks and sponsorship-deals clearly show its not a series.

This is where I begin to realize that you clearly don't understand how the Wikidata project works yet. And no, these links to the patch notes do not confirm anything at all, sorry. Meanwhile, these links (see [17], [18], [19], [20]) perfectly confirm that eFootball is a video game series!

> A lot of Infoxboxes on Wikipedia and also searchengines gather and display Informations from Wikidata, so i try to provide the correct information through Wikidata by helping to correct data on Wikidata.

Yeah, correcting information/data by removing valid statements and sourced content is very clever I must say... No thanks. I still find your cross-wiki edits controversial and I think you should refrain from making them. Contributors to various Wikimedia projects themselves know how and what needs/does not need to be fixed. I will repeat to you once again that here I absolutely agree with enwiki contributor Sandstein, who already hinted to you that if you disagree with something, then discuss it on the talk page, citing sources, instead of making controversial edits, but you are clearly not following this hint. If you keep making non-consensual edits and randomly deleting valid stuff here on Wikidata, then I can't help you here.

> There was a reason for that. Two infoboxes refused to adopt the current UE logo. When they finally did, my edit here on Wikidata was rv already. Its a bit harsh to accuse me of vandalism. Nothing is further from my mind.

Before removing valid historical logos from here, did you know that it was wrong to do this? And yes, it could very well be considered vandalism if you didn't know. As I said, you're new to wikidata, so it's best to use the talk page or ask someone how to do it right, rather than randomly replacing or removing anything in all Wikimedia projects. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 06:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

• So, I've made my solid arguments here, and you, as I see it, now have distanced yourself from the discussion and completely failed to explain why you unreasonably removed reliable source confirming the name of the video game series. Based on that, I'm going to have to restore the consensus version and undo your unconstructive edits. I'll do that in a couple of days if you don't revert them yourself. After restoring the consensus version (i.e. this one) if you continue your controversial edits again by reverting instead of using this discussion page, I will have to contact the administrators in order to review your disruptive behavior. In the course of this discussion, I feel it necessary to note the following points on which your non-consensus version cannot be considered acceptable:

1. Unjustified in any way removal of not only a valid, but most importantly a reliable source that confirms the opposite, namely that the video game series has changed its name from Pro Evolution Soccer to eFootball. After I asked you several times why you removed it, there were exactly 0 answers! There was also no answer as to why the other valid statements were deleted as well. This despite the fact that it was you who initiated this discussion and for some reason you are not even able to explain why you deleted a valid source. By the way, it's been a few days and you still haven't reverted the unsubstantiated removal of the source, as well as the other deleted statements. This could be considered vandalism on your part, since I spent my precious time to first find and then add manually this reference to Wikidata. Please respect the hard work of Wikidata contributors!
2. Your argument that the eFootball series does not exist is absolutely not true, and authoritative sources, including the one you deleted for some reason, clearly confirm this. Sources: IGN, Eurogamer, GameSpot, Gamesindustry.biz, Konami's statement that you yourself cited in your revert, PC Gamer, DTF, Game Developer, Engadget, VG247 and many others. IDs used in Wikidata: Giantbomb, Glitchwave, GameFAQs, MobyGames. Again, you have failed to explain why eFootball is not a game series when you were given these sources. You can say as much as you want that the eFootball series does not exist, but the sources here are clearly not on your side.
3. Your unconstructive behavior in general. The fact that you opened this discussion was the right thing to do, but before (see 1, 2, 3, 4) and after (see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and etc.) opening it you made controversial edits (and reverts) with which I absolutely do not agree, meaning that currently your version is non-consensual and you had to justify your disputable removals from two affected items during this discussion. This unfortunately did not happen and at the moment from every point of view you fail to explain your unreasonable removals. When you were asked to refrain from removing valid content from both items and continue the discussion to reach consensus, you not only did not follow this advice, but you also went on edit war to get your non-consensual version back (by reverting, see 1, 2) and this despite being asked to refrain from to do so. I also asked you if you could undo your edits and continue this discussion to try to reach consensus, but there was no response. I find this behavior on your part unacceptable and highly disruptive.
4. My suggestion to split up the game series into separate items was completely ignored. I don't know why, but instead of considering this option, you have continued to revert and assure me that the eFootball series does not exist, yet I have already cited sources here several times that completely refute this.
5. Your controversial cross-wiki edits worry me. I still don't understand why you should be the one who decides how and what editors of the various Wikimedia projects should correct. I believe that the participants in the various projects know better what to do in any given case, so I once again insist that you should refrain from cross-wiki edits. It's been suggested that if you disagree with something, then please discuss it on the talk page before making such controversial changes (looks vandalism to me, especially these three edits of yours 1, 2, 3, same goes for eswiki and Wikidata as well), but apparently you don't want to take that advice and you keep making them for some reason. Although as you put it, you do it to "provide the correct information through Wikidata by helping to correct data on Wikidata". But do we need that kind of "help" when you remove valid claims and sourced content added manually by Wikidata contributors? Well, I do not think so. You have no respect for my work and apparently you don't care how much time I spent adding sources...
6. Another problem here is the general lack of familiarity with Wikidata. This was evident after I caught you (example 1, 2) deleting historical data from here. You clearly don't understand how this project works yet, so my advice would be to familiarize yourself with the project first, and if you don't understand something, use the talk page or contact Wikidata editors directly instead of making controversial edits. Meaning, of course, the unreasonable deletion of valuable information here on Wikidata. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 03:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

   My apologies if it seems to you that i am ignoring this discussion. In fact, i was abroad for business reasons last week and didn't found any time. I am back home since yesterday and want to spend some time with family and also need to do some work. Give that topic a little more time, i will comment on the points you made as soon as i find more time for wiki again. I am still convinced that eFootball is not a series. Konami itself describing it as a constantly evolving platform, which you can clearly see in the development of the game since its release. I also thought of asking Konami directly about this topic. By the way i made more than 23000 edits in the Wikimedia projects and never got a ban, and believe me, i have no interest in changing that. Regards Scip. (talk) 16:10, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Okay, I'll give this thread a little more time, but if you really aren't interested in getting blocked, then please undo your non-consensual edits right now and continue this discussion by clarifying all the issues raised here, otherwise the consensus version will be reinstated soon enough.

> I am still convinced that eFootball is not a series.

Sorry, but this is your personal unsubstantiated opinion and this does not change the fact that this is a video game series.

> Konami itself describing it as a constantly evolving platform, which you can clearly see in the development of the game since its release.

Konami not only says that, but also clearly identifies "eFootball series/franchise" in its sources (see the source you cited in your revert). Besides, we have a whole mountain of sources here to prove it (see above).

I would also like to point out that if you still fail argue your actions, then I will leave this discussion, because I am already tired of saying this over and over again and I do not want to waste my precious time on this discussion anymore. I continue to get exactly 0 responses and we are still hung up on your non-consensus version. If you are unable to clearly explain your controversial edits, then I have nothing else to do here. I have made my valid points and this discussion should not concern me anymore. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 04:01, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done. Consensus version has been restored. Now just please continue here and try to resolve all the issues raised here before making any controversial changes again. If there will be another revert and by doing so you restore your non-consensual version instead of discuss, the next step will be to contact the administrators, so you have been warned. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 03:45, 28 April 2023 (UTC)