Talk:Q538

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Autodescription — Insular Oceania (Q538)

description: geographic region and continent comprising Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia
Useful links:
See also


There is another Item, Q55643, that's about Oceania 'and Australia, this one here is supposed to be just about Oceania. But a lot of articles connected here are about the bigger one instead of te right one. How to solve this mess? Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 11:17, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not in the clumsy way in which it was handled now. This entry is on the List of articles every Wikipedia should have, and that claim was definitely based on all of Oceania. Why isn't there more discussion about such intrusive changes? --Oscar Zariski (talk) 18:34, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree - needs a lot of work on getting this right. The List of articles every Wikipedia should have contains a redirect, not an article! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 06:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Sänger: you created a mess by deciding that this item "should" be just about insular Oceania and throwing interwikis between them at random. Please consider reverting the decision ("Oceania" in common use refers to both Australian continent and Pacific archipelagoes, see e.g. Britannica) and carefully examining which interwiki belongs where by checking content. You can't just judge by the name of the article. This goes to others helping you too, such as Xosé Antonio, Soumya-8974 and Delasse. — Yerpo Eh? 16:42, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
These are two distinct physical and geographical items, one only Oceania, one including Australia etc. Here you have the clear and unambiguous Property:P361: this here is part of the other, not the other way around. So if you think the names for the two distinct items are somehow wrong, just change them, but the items described by the properties are like they are now, and the interwikilinks will have to follow. I can't read anything but english and dutch, so I leave the rest for you. Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 16:51, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
They are distinct, but the more common meaning should retain the position at Q538. I'm talking about content, not names. Plus, it's really bad conduct to decide something yourself, then leave others to clean up the mess. — Yerpo Eh? 17:15, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Yerpo What do you mean by "the more common meaning"? One item is about Oceania and other is about insular Oceania. The confusion can be only in English, where Oceania can sometimes mean insular Oceania (normally it means the whole Oceania including Australia). In other languages as far as I can see there is no confusion. Delasse (talk) 17:18, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And it is;) Just not from your personal perspective, but well from mine and at least the deWP. Define most common meaning, and without any reference to the highly overrated enWP. Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 17:21, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I gave you an authoritative source confirming my statement. Like Delasse said, normally it means the whole Oceania including Australia, so Q538 should reflect that like it did before. — Yerpo Eh? 17:22, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That item you are talking about is Q55643, and it exists quite some time now. I don't know why people linked articles about Australia & Oceania to this item, which was always wrong, this here was just about Oceania. Look at this version] from its creation. You have to ask User:Arbnos, who made the relation clear with this edit, that Q538 is part of Q55643, which makes perfect sense, since this here is just Oceania, while the other one is Australia and Oceania. Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 17:41, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
People linked Australia & Oceania to this item because it was what the :enwiki article talked about. Like I said, "Oceania" in common use normally means "Australia and insular Oceania". That's why I'm saying that you need to consider content, not just the name. — Yerpo Eh? 18:26, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, I could not care less but about the enWP, they are anything but the navel of the Wikiverse. Ozeanien bedeutet normalerweise genau das, was hier beschrieben steht, wenn da Australien bei sein soll, heißt das Ozeanien und Australien (oder Australien und Ozeanien). Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 19:10, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So you're saying we should use deWP as the navel? Because it's really not so clear cut in other languages. I don't think you can count on default agreement on that. — Yerpo Eh? 07:54, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I followed the Property:P361: Q538 is part of Q55643, so the only logical way is the way it is now. Grüße vom Sänger ♫ (talk) 15:33, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind if Q538 or Q55643 would be Oceania as we understand it in the languages I know, that is comprising Australasia, Micronesia, Melanesia and Polinesia. I move the articles in Galician, Spanish, Catalan and some others iberian languages because they fit better in Q55643 according to the information that appeared in every item at that moment. If you consider that Q538 must be the item to these articles, please let us know. --Xosé Antonio (talk) 11:29, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese Wikipedia's Oceania link[edit]

The Japanese Wikipedia's Oceania article link to the English Wikipedia points to "Insular Oceania", which is currently redirecting to the Oceania article. Can this be fixed? I apparently either don't have permission to edit existing interlanguage links, or can't figure out how to do so. MarqFJA87 (talk) 11:29, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Delasse (talk) 10:19, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why let "Insular Oceania" hijack this item?[edit]

In the earliest versions of the item, the definition is "A continent or geographical region in and near the Pacific Ocean", which is the most common meaning of the word "Oceania". In most languages, the meaning of "Oceania" is the whole Oceania including Australia. This item is also listed in m:List of articles every Wikipedia should have & m:List of articles every Wikipedia should have/Expanded.

I really do not understand why let "Insular Oceania" hijack this item recently. I think many of the languages here is for the whole "Oceania" rather than "Insular Oceania". And also it is so strange to see that all other continents are in the "List of articles every Wikipedia should have" but only part of the continent for Oceania.--XRTIER (talk) 14:05, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The so-called "Insular Oceania" should probably be the same as "Pacific Islands". I suggest moving the interwikis for "Insular Oceania / Pacific Islands" to Q844857, and keep the interwikis for the Oceania continent here (Q538) (merge Q55643 to here if needed).--Kwgulden (talk) 08:54, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If there is no difference between "Insular Oceania" and "Pacific Islands", some cleanup works have to be done:
  1. Revert Q538 to the version on 30 June 2021, which the description said "geographic region comprising Australasia, Melanesia, Micronesia and Polynesia"
  2. Move the sitelinks meaning "Insular Oceania" from Q538 to Q844857 (Pacific Islands)
  3. Merge all sitelinks from Q55643 (Oceania) to Q538
--XRTIER (talk) 01:41, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Interwiki problem with Q55643[edit]

I'm starting this conversation again since the interwiki link is a mess, between this item and Oceania (Q55643). Should we combine these two? Arupako (talk) 19:41, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We can't merge two completely different territories (difference = continent of Australia). --Infovarius (talk) 10:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Q538&oldid=1899119890"