Talk:Q5380480

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Autodescription — entertainment centre (Q5380480)

description: entertainment venue (this item is conceptually vague and is proposed for merger into Q6770467 - see the talk page)
Useful links:
Classification of the class entertainment centre (Q5380480)  View with Reasonator View with SQID
For help about classification, see Wikidata:Classification.
Parent classes (classes of items which contain this one item)
Subclasses (classes which contain special kinds of items of this class)
⟨entertainment centre⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1)
Generic queries for classes
See also


English Wikipedia link[edit]

Hello friends, please remove the English Wikipedia link as it points to the wrong thing altogether, in fact the Wikipedia article is about a piece of furniture rather than a place. I could not edit as this page is locked. 2600:1700:280:CF40:115A:5DFD:D656:BE73 17:20, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done --TimK MSI (talk) 17:27, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Item proposed either for deletion or for merger into Q85661503[edit]

This item lacks conceptual clarity and has been the source of confusion. For example, event venue (Q18674739) was recently merged into entertainment centre (Q5380480) based on an incorrect label string reconciliation (details) - this unfortunate merger was undone (details). In order to prevent further confusion, I proposed the deletion of Q5380480. However, this item is still linked to several "Entertainment venues" categories (such as Category:Entertainment venues in the United States (Q7155494)) that would become orphan if Q5380480 was deleted. I looked for a Wikidata item that could potentially act as a superclass for all the kinds of facilities (arenas, casinos, amusement parks, theatres, zoos, etc.) that are represented under these categories and I found recreation structure (Q85661503). This item is linked to aat:300122263 "recreation structures", which is a parent concept for all the kinds of venues described in Category:Entertainment venues in the United States (Q7155494). The simplest solution would be to merge Q5380480 into Q85661503. Please weigh in before I proceed.

Beat Estermann (talk) 22:21, 31 March 2017 (UTC) Beireke1 (talk) Beireke1 (talk) 12:07, 2 May 2017 (UTC) - collaborating with Romaine on Belgian data on performing arts venues. Affom (talk) 15:26, 12 May 2017 (UTC) Anvilaquarius (talk) 11:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC) PEAk99(talk) PEAK99 (talk) 20:32, 29 January 2019 (UTC) Boxomi (talk) 22:21, 24 September 2019 (UTC) Antoine2711 (talk) 00:19, 5 December 2019 (UTC) Fjjulien (talk) 21:15, 13 February 2020 (UTC) Vero Marino (talk) 21:15, 13 February 2020 (UTC) Bello Na'im (talk) 08:34, 24 September 2021 (UTC) Titanboo (talk) 17:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC) dlh28 (talk)18:21, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject Cultural venues Fjjulien (talk) 21:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that event venue (Q18674739) is not a subclass of building while recreation structure (Q85661503) is. So they're not the same. It may be that Q85661503 is a subclass of Q18674739.Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 09:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Vojtěch Dostál I am not proposing to merge event venue (Q18674739) into recreation structure (Q85661503), but rather to merge entertainment centre (Q5380480) (this item) into recreation structure (Q85661503). I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
Here's another attempt at clarifying the relationship between these three classes:
  • event venue (Q18674739) was the subject of multiple community discussions and we arrived at a consensus on a clear definition and on the situation of this concept in the Wikidata class hierarchy. This concept serves useful structural needs and should no longer be the subject of major edits. It is not the same as recreation structure (Q85661503), although both classes could be considered a subclass of venue (Q17350442) and they might also be deemed partially coincident with one another (i.e. some instances of "event venue" could also be deemed instance "recreational structure".
  • recreation structure (Q85661503) has a clearly definition that corresponds to the scope and class hierarchy aat:300122263 "recreation structures".
  • entertainment centre (Q5380480), on the other hand, lacks a clearly defined scope: a user can't tell based on the current description whether an entity can be stated an instance or a subclass of Q5380480. The only defining criteria is an "entertainment" purpose - which is quite vague. The word "entertainment" may be interpreted by some users as referring only to passive/receptive leisure activities (e.g. movies, performing arts, spectator sports, etc.) and by others as also encompassing active recreational activities (e.g. dancing, bowling, skiing, golfing, swimming), heritage activities (e.g., art galleries, science museum), as well as other kinds of amusement activities (e.g. amusement parks, casinos). The list of venues categorized as "Entertainment venues in the United States" in Wikimedia Commons is indicative of a broad, inclusive understanding of the term "entertainment" (fairly consistent with what would be defined as "arts, entertainment and recreation" establishments in the North American Industry Classification System).
I am thus proposing to merge entertainment centre (Q5380480) into recreation structure (Q85661503) and to define the resulting item as:
Fjjulien (talk) 16:24, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for previous confusion. Generally, I don't really like merges of such high-level entities because they (and their subclasses) are used in instance of (P31) on hundreds or thousands of items. And if there is slight difference in the definition, it leads to mistakes introduced into Wikidata. For example, Q85661503 is a building, and if you merge it with Q5380480 and deprecate the building class, you will end up with this item on many buildings, which creates confusion. In my view, this creates more problems than it solves. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 08:47, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Vojtěch Dostál Thanks for your feedback. I will wait until I further input is provided to proceed with the merger.
For clarity, architectural structure (Q811979) is a direct superclass to building (Q41176). Therefore, my proposed change would not have any impact on P31 statements: any instance of (P31)recreation structure (Q85661503) statement remains TRUE whether recreation structure (Q85661503)subclass of (P279)building (Q41176) or recreation structure (Q85661503)subclass of (P279)architectural structure (Q811979). Fjjulien (talk) 21:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Completely agree with @Fjjulien. It seems that no existing statements will become incorrect with this proposed merger. It's wise to think of what could possibly go wrong, but if we can't think of anything, I can only see the benefits of conceptual clarity after this merger. Beireke1 (talk) 15:45, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hannahtsas @Romaine @PKM @Gerd Fahrenhorst This proposed merger of an item into recreation structure (Q85661503) may be of interest to you. Fjjulien (talk) 16:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the use of entertainment centre (Q5380480) as a major venue class is semantically vague – especially considering that in North American English, its more commonly used homonym entertainment center (Q5380479) refers to a shelving unit for home electronics. Adding entertainment centre in the Q5380480 sense as an alias of recreation structure (Q85661503) would lead to more robust modelling in Wikidata. Dlh28 (talk) 19:52, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Further to feedback from the WikiProject Performing arts community, I examined the category structure in Wikimedia Commons to determine if any category that have "entertainment center" as a topic would be conceptually inaccurate after the merger. Here are my observations:
- Not all sub-categories for Category:Entertainment venues are subclasses of buildings : Category:Adventure_parks, Category:Amusement_parks, and Category:Playgrounds are rather human-built structures (or facilities).
- Category:Entertainment venues is a sub-category to Category:Facilities by type.
- Both categories in this combined category structure are meant to encompass buildings as well as other kinds structures.
Based on the above observation this "entertainment center" Wikidata does not serve any structural function in the Wikimedia Commons category structure that the Category:Entertainment venues can't serve. As a matter of fact, merging Q5380480 into Category:Entertainment venues (Q6770467) would make the Wikimedia Commons structure more consistent. Consequently, I would like to change my initial recommendation: I would now like to propose the merger of Q5380480 into Category:Entertainment venues (Q6770467). Fjjulien (talk) 16:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Q5380480&oldid=2093038199"