Talk:Q698

What this item represent?

Firefox born as Phoenix and was later renamed in Firebird and, finally, Firefox. This item should represent the successor of Firebird or all the versions, starting from Phoenix?--Malore (talk) 13:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Malore, all the versions of course - you can edit this item and supplement what is lacking, but remember about the links to primary source/s of the data you mention. --Jasc PL (talk) 22:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Jasc PL:, how to indicate that Firefox is the name assumed after Firebird? Using official name (P1448) qualified with start and end dates?--Malore (talk) 22:50, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

@Malore The best place is to add Qualifier Q3327049 at "named after" - P138 Property.

However, the item discuss page is not a proper place for discuss about it, so this page will probably be removed. Community portal or Project chat are very proper and most useful. --Jasc PL (talk) 19:02, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jasc PL: I pointed out it also in Wikidata:Project chat#How to behave if a product or company is renamed?, and I was told to add official name with start and end time.--Malore (talk) 09:19, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jasc PL: See Firefox at English Wikipedia. dataeast1 (Talk to me) 23:51, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

@Malore Good solution, many people usually knows better than one user :) --Jasc PL (talk) 15:08, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jasc PL: Whatever you say, Firefox first called Phoenix, and renamed Firebird (but finally renamed Firefox). dataeast1 (Talk to me) 21:22, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jasc PL: My only doubt about using "official name" is that it doesn't link to "Firebird" or "Phoenix" items, so there is no connection between these items.--Malore (talk) 10:28, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

@Malore, so my first idea was to use "named after" - P138 rather than "official name" - P1448, but P138 need to be checked deeper if using it in this context is properly - also in property proposal discussion. --Jasc PL (talk) 16:17, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @Jasc PL: Really? Actually Phoenix (Q3327049) should be merged with Firefox (Q698). In a discussion of the comment of Jasc PL has said "Community portal or Project chat are very proper and most useful" which does not mean "Community porial are mostly useful" so please see Firefox at English Wikipedia.

However, the actual item (Phoenix (Q3327049)) as been not merged to Firefox (Q698). Wikipedia's Firefox section History or article History of Firefox might be useful for you. My idea is to visit Firefox at English Wikipedia, and the description maybe helpful for you. dataeast1 (Talk to me) 20:19, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Also, the item Mozilla Firebird (Q3327045) should also be merged with Firefox (Q698). I changed in named after (P138).dataeast1 (Talk to me) 20:41, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jasc PL: I don't think "named after" is correct because it should indicate where the 'name' comes from, not the company. In this case, the value of "named after" should be (and it is) "Aliurus fulgens".

In order to create a link between Firefox and Firebird, maybe we could add statement is subject of (P805): Mozilla Firebird (Q3327045) as qualifier of official name (P1448): Mozilla Firebird (the same is valid for Phoenix).--Malore (talk) 10:50, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

@dataeast1:

• Phoenix (Q3327049) should NOT be moved, removed, redirected or merged with anything else;
• Please, don't touch anything outside Item space, including items that are definitions, templates, special and maintenance items etc - unless you have enough knowledge, experience and full awareness what you are doing, OK?
• The best place for learning and safe testing is the special WD sandbox - Wikidata:Tours;
• Feel free to start at the Help:Contents where you find many valuable knowledge, also for beginners - and then try to make some simple editions --Jasc PL (talk) 23:33, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

@Malore: don't try to guess a solutions, that for a long time are ready; better way is to read the content of qualifiers or properties you plan to use and looking at the similar items - also similar elements in the item you edit. Older names of Firefox it's a very small problem at the moment - most of your editions at the Mozilla Firefox (Q698) is the real problem. I understand your good will and appreciate your work, but - errors are errors.:

• Where are the sources of codenames you added?
• software version - there are many statements added before your editions - they are examples of how it should be done !
  • What is "Firefox 3.6.3plugin1 "Lorentz"" or "Firefox 3.6.4 (OOPP) "Lorentz""?
  • 1.0 and the rest you placed:
    • "title Phoenix (English)" - title of what?
    • "codename Firefox 1.0 "Phoenix"" - 3 errors in one property
  • 1.0 RC2: "codename Firefox 1.0 Release Candidate 2 "Whangamata" - NO !

codename is "Whangamata", version type is release candidate (Q1072356) !

• Preferred rank is wrongly used in many places --Jasc PL (talk) 23:33, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jasc PL I know, but it may be can merged with user Malore. dataeast1 (Talk to me) 23:47, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jasc PL: I didn't guess a solution, I reflected on it and I think it's better than other solutions. What do you think is wrong about my solution?--Malore (talk) 10:43, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Firefox versions

@Jasc PL: I think it's better create another discussion instead of merging several topics in one discussion. Regards my edits of Firefox versions, I simply imported them from w:Firefox version history. I know there are mistakes but it's better than nothing. However, I have a question about them. Since there are items about specific Firefox versions (like Firefox 4 (Q1950119)), do you think is better to list all firefox versions or only the major one here (e.g. Firefox 4.0b10 should be listed only in Firefox 4 (Q1950119) or also in Firefox (Q698))--Malore (talk) 10:56, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Firefox brand and Firefox browser

Mozilla announced (https://blog.mozilla.org/opendesign/firefox-the-evolution-of-a-brand/) that "Firefox" will be no longer just the browser, but the masterbrand for a bunch of products such as Firefox Monitor, Firefox Browser, Firefox Lockwise etc. and this should be represented here as well. Q698 should be renamed to Firefox Browser and a new item is needed to represent the brand with all products. As I work for Mozilla, I have a CoI and shouldnt do any of such change therefore I am flagging this here for discussion. Rraue (talk) 09:58, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

@Rraue: It hasn't even been applied to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/ yet. Also, that post is about icons and I wouldn't use it as a source for anything else: like with other (semi-)official posts of Mozilla, it's hard for me to extract useful information among all the "Mozilla is better, it's small, supports software security and people diversity, Firefox has become faster etc" stuff. No offense about this particular post, because it's actually about icons and branding, but it's not clear enough that the word "Firefox" is changing its meaning. --AVRS (talk) 23:37, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

@AVRS:Speaking of icons, the second one is, like stated in the blog post and on https://mozilla.design/firefox/logos-usage/ not the browser logo, but the brand family logo. The third one will be the new browser logos, so I think the second logo should be removed, as it is not a logo for this entity, what do you think? --Rraue (talk) 16:02, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

@Rraue: I hope I understood it correctly that the Firefox Project should get its own item. I removed the Firefox Project logo from this page. --AVRS (talk) 18:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

@AVRS: Thank you. I think the Firefox masterbrand should get its own entity. But I am biased ;) and thats why I use the talk page to discuss, its up to the community and maybe we should just wait until everything gets clearer on the Mozilla website.--Rraue (talk) 09:22, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

SamsonNosmas seems to be very troublesome

I'm having a problem with the Firefox article. Lately, SamsonNosmas seems to be very troublesome by removing the "Preferred" rankings of the "102.3.0esr", "106.0beta" and "107.0a1" versions of Firefox and setting them to "Normal", but this breaks the Firefox article on Wikipedia. However, I've responded by undoing his edits, since they count as vandalism. But I'm very worried that SamsonNosmas will undo my good faith edits and revert to vandalism again. Can somebody please teach SamsonNosmas a lesson not to break the Firefox article on Wikipedia? --Angeldeb82 (talk) 22:38, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

@Angeldeb82 This user seems to have received a contradictory advice in 2018 (rank for every new version of software should not be changed to Preferred - Normal is OK on SamsonNosmas talk page) that may explain removal… However, you are right: Preferred rankings should be kept, per Help:Ranking#Preferred_rank.

PS: in another hand, WP template could be improved to display only 1 version per type of version, based on date. — Metamorforme42 (talk) 08:25, 4 October 2022 (UTC)