User talk:Wolverène

Q122782472

Hello, I just realized that the item (Q122782472) was deleted. I remember that i talked on providing more source but i got busy.

Could you check if any of these is a source? Some are in other language but they can be translated easily

https://trademarks.justia.com/979/34/lysee-97934804.html

https://uspto.report/company/Pimentel-Vicel

https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/pimentel-vicel-5526607/

https://www.discountmags.com/au/magazine/latino-sleb-october-1-2023-digital/in-this-issue/33

https://listindiario.com/entretenimiento/20231213/lysee-dominicana-da-voz-temas-series-netflix-hulu-disney-plus_786753.html

https://teleradioamerica.com/2023/12/dominicanas-dando-voz-al-tema-de-las-series-lysee-netflix-hulu-y-disney-plus/ Daremize (talk) 16:18, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Wolverène i awaits your response Daremize (talk) 13:55, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

This appears to be the only source I could recommend as a serious reference. What do you think, Emu?.. --Wolverène (talk) 23:49, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, that’s probably enough. I restored the item. Thank you, Wolverène. --Emu (talk) 12:26, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Q13179595

Просьба не путать сущности: мировое христианство и христианство на Земле (Q13179595). Первое - объёмнее, потому что на МКС есть православные иконы и периодически бывают православные, а МКС Землёй не является. Если нужен элемент Мировое христианство, то создайте. Ыфь77 (talk) 14:42, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Противопоставление "христианства на Земле" и "христианства в мире" выглядит как минимум избыточным, поскольку за пределами нашей планеты не существует постоянных христианских поселений, церквей, не печатаются Библии, не существует регулирования вопросов религии. Даже если на МКС есть какие-то молельные комнаты (в теории - я не знаю), противопоставлять их целой Румынии или любой другой стране - это сильно. И православные космонавты на МКС являются землянами, и работают в интересах земных государств и организаций.
"Христианство на Земле" звучит примерно так же, как "Масонство на Луне". Как известно, один из двух первых человек, ступавших на поверхность Луны, Базз Олдрин, является масоном, какие выводы мы могли бы из этого сделать?.. --Wolverène (talk) 19:53, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

1) Не утрируйте, это не противопоставление, а несоответствие. Разделение Земли и Мира в культуре существует уже с прошлого века - сколько выполнено (именно выполнено!) научных работ в космосе и на других планетах, сколько фильмов, включая художественных (хотя бы впомните российскую "космоактрису"), сделано вне биосферы Земли. Вы думаете за время существования станции Мир и МКС там не выработалась своя билингва? Это несоответствие наследуют все части культуры, включая искусство, религию и прочее. Его же я закрепил в элементах Викиданных (Q13152690, Q13198592 и Q13150034). 2) Мне для работы в ВД нужны элементы-контейнеры именно для Земли, чтобы отделить географические составляющие классов от всех остальных. Пример: христианство у монголов (Q5110478) в мировое христианство входит, а в христианство на Земле в общем случае - уже нет, потому что негеографический элемент у географического класса быть не должен. --Ыфь77 (talk) 20:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

3) Сейчас на Луне масонов нет, а вот православные иконы на МКС летают. И внеземная наука и прикладное искусство есть и продолжают развиваться - та же телесъёмка поверхности Луны производится во время написания ответа. --Ыфь77 (talk) 20:18, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Спасибо за аргументы, склонен даже согласиться. Тогда, с вашего позволения, внесу эти правки для соблюдения единообразия. --Wolverène (talk) 20:21, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Если Вы посмотрите на языковой шаблон на моей ЛС, то увидите, что языковой континуум, окромя 3 языков, мне не доступен. Поэтому онлайн-переводчики - наше всё. Ыфь77 (talk) 20:51, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

---

Обращаюсь к Вашему опыту. Мне нужен элемент-контейнер наподобие Q13179595 для культур по этнической группе, потому что там много элементов зависли без надклассов: а) нужен ли? б) как назвать? в) как перевести на мировые языки, чтобы не возникало путаницы, г) в каких отношениях он будет с Q13179595? --Ыфь77 (talk) 20:59, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ыфь77: Извините, что так долго отвечал, то одно то другое... Правильно я понимаю, структуризацию вы предлагаете примерно по такой схеме: культура России → культура России на Земле/в космосе -> культура России в мире? Я всё же не уверен, что такое детальное структурирование данных не вызовет вопросов. Если не включать в критерий этнос/национальность, то получается всё достаточно оправданно. То есть культура России (культура русских) → культура Европы/Азии → культура на Земле → культура мира. Для детализации на этносы предлагаю начать обсуждение на форуме (русскоязычном или лучше общем) и прийти к какому-то консенсусу.

По остальному. По-русски можно сказать ... на Земле (противопоставляя ... в космосе). По-английски лучше of Earth, потому что on Earth звучит несколько не конкретно, on the Earth предполагает чёткую привязку к поверхности Земли, in the Earth - как будто что-то происходит внутри планеты. С другими языками надо смотреть со словарём, в том же испанском de la Tierra (тот же смысл). Q13179595 (христианство на Земле) будет определяться как аспект (instance of) сущности религия на Земле, она в свою очередь как аспект культура на Земле. --Wolverène (talk) 18:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Но с христианством лучше Christianity on Earth. --Wolverène (talk) 18:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Я абсолютно не это имел в виду, поэтому и отделил разделы. Есть русская культура (культура русских как народа / этнической группы, Q71194656), которая является подклассом славянской культуры (Q66049360), которая подклассом должна быть, но не может, потому что нет соответствующего элемента в ВД (или я его не нашёл). Это подвопрос (а). Остальные подвопросы вроде бы после объяснения должны быть понятны. Ыфь77 (talk) 18:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Ответвление в лингвистическую сторону. Я вообще ничего не противопоставлял, создавая Христианство на Земли, я лишь объединял все географические элементы в один подкласс, всё что не касается географии и поверхности Земли (в пределах биосферы), в такое объединение не входит. Насколько я понял из вашего объяснения Christianity of the Earth -- самый точный перевод этого значения на англицкий. Ыфь77 (talk) 18:39, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Ещё мелкая просьба: подавите вики-ссылку на элемент, через полмесяца она будет неактуально, а в ссылках элемента она будет болтаться всё его время существование. Ыфь77 (talk) 18:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Почему бы в Q66049360 не перенести culture of Europe (Q1377906) и culture of Asia (Q149806) из part of (P361) в subclass of (P279)? Тогда структура не будет поломана. Если остаётся part of (P361), то тогда в culture of Europe (Q1377906) и culture of Asia (Q149806) по идее должно быть свойство has part(s) (P527) с длинным перечислением европейских/азиатских культур, чего делать не предполагается. А культура славян действительно подкласс культур соответствующих континентов. --Wolverène (talk) 18:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

... тогда в Q71194656 не будет стоять предупреждение "Slavic culture should have a statement subclass of." (или как там по-русски) --Wolverène (talk) 18:56, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Здесь несколько аргументов против. 1) Возможно я искренне заблуждаюсь, но я привык воспринимать подкласс ВД как сущность математики (множество) и программирования (подкласс из ООП), т. е. не должно быть элементов подкласса, не входящих в любой уровень родительских надклассов. В категориях рувики это называется транзитивность, так вот отношение подкласс-надкласс должны быть абсолютно транзитивны. Вы предлагаете грубо её нарушить 2) Произойдёт множество включений негеографических элементов в географические элементы. Если один раз ещё такое можно простить, то множественное включение - очень плохо. Ыфь77 (talk) 18:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Отношение в ВД "является частью" я не отношу к абсолютно транзитивным. Ыфь77 (talk) 19:01, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

По мне, "часть от" - тоже транзитивное свойство. Ещё мелкая просьба: ставьте ссылки на элементы - 1) удобно переходить из беседы, чтобы посмотреть, о чём речь; 2) удобно из элемента получать список всех дискуссий об этом элементе. А "замусоренность" "ссылок сюда" вообще не проблема - легко фильтруется, если надо. --Infovarius (talk) 14:21, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Тогда найдите свойство, которое опишет частично транзитивные отношения: часть А есть часть Б, но Б по объёму больше. Свойство "частично совпадает с" (P1382) не предлагать, потому что здесь должны быть вертикальные отношения, а не горизонтальные. Ыфь77 (talk) 14:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

И просьба не отвлекать от основного вопроса раздела: нужен ли главный элемент-контейнер для культур по этнической группе, и если нужен, то какой он должен быть. У меня уже есть вариант, но хотелось бы увидеть другие мнения. Ыфь77 (talk) 14:29, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

А у нас нету элемента "культура по этнической группе"? Его бы можно поставить в P31 для них. А нужен ли P279, я не уверен. --Infovarius (talk) 10:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Как метакласс - есть. UPD: нужен, потому что этнические группы свойством P279 обладают, следовательно иерархия есть. Ыфь77 (talk) 10:09, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Controversial Alexei Navalny (Q155979) edits

There is no need to remove such statements, as it directly aligns with Wikidata guidelines. Please refer to the following Wikidata policies (bolding made by me):

Marking erroneous statements as deprecated instead of simply deleting such statements has three benefits:

3. it pholds and establishes the integrity of Wikidata as a secondary knowledge base (that collects and links to references), rather than a primary database of facts. Wikidata simply provides information according to specific sources; those sources may or may not reflect contemporary thought or scientific consensus.

• Source: Help:Ranking

Qualifiers therefore contribute to Wikidata's flexibility as a platform and its ability to support a plurality of perspectives, including data which may provide contradicting information. In case of disputes, community consensus ultimately determines the value of a property, however other points of views can be added as additional values using qualifiers as well as sources. Please note that just as Wikipedia does not publish original research or content representing the beliefs of its editors, Wikidata does not allow contributions that reflect personal stances or opinions, nor does it tolerate edit warring over statement values.

• Source: Wikidata:Verifiability

Assessing usefulness is subjective, and each user should decide whether to trust one source over another.

Please note that I will revert these edits as controversial and disruptive after 48 hours to avoid initiating an edit war. Arjun Sàjeev (talk) 19:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@Arjun Sàjeev: First of all, I didn't mean that the value was errorneous, I meant it was reduntant and "does not make much sense for us" (c).

If there is a person was born on June 4, 1976, we will have different options of how can the date of birth be represented: 1) 4 June 1976, 2) 1976, 3) June 1976; all of these three can be surely proven by sources. Also, some sources may list the day of birth only, or may not show the date of birth but within the context it might've been clear that the person started living in the XX century, thus we can get the value 4) 20. century. It would be superfluous to list all of these values although none of these ones are incorrect.

Preferred and deprecated ranks might be good if we knew that there are sources which question the person's day of birth, or even the whole date of birth. In very this case and as far as I know, sources are more-less agree that Mr Navalny was born on June 4, 1976, and if one of the many databases displays just the year, for an unclear reason like code restrictions or another, we can neglect a database entry as a source for birthdate as incomplete and/or excessive for referencing.

For what have been bolded:

Marking erroneous statements as deprecated instead of simply deleting -- We did not have an issue about the deprecated rank, and no one says that any property values are erroneous.

Your understanding of Wikidata as a secondary knowledge base that collects the references is too literal, like if we should add a myriad of values for every property within an item, including those with typos or unintentional inaccuracies, just because of presence of at least one reference. For example, in practice we still do not seek to add literally all of the variants of romanization of the name "Алексей Анатольевич Навальный", incl. IPA-based one, letter-by-letter transliterations, obviously errorneous romanization styles, derogatory misrepresentations of the his name used by political opponents, etc.

other points of views can be added as additional values using qualifiers as well as sources -- Not the real case of POV ambiguity. He was our contemporary so we know detailedly his date of birth from his personal statements or state registers

Wikidata does not allow contributions that reflect personal stances or opinions -- Off topic?

Assessing usefulness is subjective, and each user should decide whether to trust one source over another. -- OK, if X is incomplete information and Y is complete information, X and Y may be both trustful, but X and Y are not the same valuable. Sorry but it looks like you are outraged of my edits while being misunderstood the meaning of them.

The removal of reduntant values is not a clear violation and can just hardly be labeled as 'controversial' and 'disruptive'. Can I give you a hint on what may be considered controversial? Things like: I) bolding cited parts of policies in a semi-public message that looks like an attempt to use a condescending or didactic manner, II) assuming bad-faith ("...revert ... in 48 hours ... to avoid initiating an edit war" although it's not obvious if I am intending to initiate one), III) assuming that a user (be it newcomer or sysop) does something disruptive in spite of the other contributions seemed to be clearly constructive, with an attempt to present the very own vision of policies as the only correct.

Do not worry, I am not going to initiate the edit-war even if you revert the edits right now and call them un-God-ly disruptive. In fact, this does not look like a reason for dispute and mutual accusations, although ... depends on an individual. :-] --Wolverène (talk) 13:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Polish noble family (Q115867377)

Hello sir. I would like to ask you for help in creating a redirect from Polish noble family (Q115867377) to Szlachta family (Q27062351) because they are exactly the same subjects that are simply named differently. Polish noble family (Q115867377) is not linked to any subpage. Thank you very much. Heroldicas (talk) 19:06, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello. To merge the items in very this case, I would've had some understanding of the history of Poland, I am afraid mine is (at best) somewhat superficial.
As far as I see it, 'Polish noble family' may be related to the noble families settled in Poland disregard of cultural/ethnical identity, while 'Szlachta family' may be related to the families of the specific noble estate known as Szlachta, disregard of the territory (Lithuania, ...).
If we define the sameness of 'Polish noble family' and 'Szlachta family', we should also say that 1) any noble family that relocated to Poland (within any historical boundaries) from another lands was automatically regarded as a Szlachta family, 2) any noble family of the Polish descent that relocated to another lands, especially far from the Eastern Europe also stopped belonging to the Szlachta. This all probably sounds incorrect. We could divide nobility both ways, by country and by cultural ties, without mixing concepts.
But then again, I am reasoning as a person with somewhat poor knowledge of the Polish history. Would not you like to consult the Polish-speaking community first? Wikidata:Kafejka. --Wolverène (talk) 06:50, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll do that. Thank you for your time and have a nice day! Heroldicas (talk) 11:41, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Same to you. --Wolverène (talk) 12:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Requests for permissions ab.

I applied through this link https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Other_rights#DrowssapSMM but I guess I couldn't do it. :( --Quiklav (talk) 00:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I have fixed/formatted your request. --Wolverène (talk) 03:11, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

ruwiki

Hola @Wolverène Could you check this supposed template on Russian wiki, please? спасибо. Madamebiblio (talk) 12:36, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Buen día, I have fixed the template and merged the WD items. :) --Wolverène (talk) 03:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Bot request

Hello you've been asked for feedback at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Bot_requests#The_nl_descriptions_lacking_the_space_sign_(2023-11-02) Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 19:26, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I am going to respond later. --Wolverène (talk) 06:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Empty/Blank items

What do we do with unlinked blank items like Q125523037? Thanks - Da Lamb^{Talk to me!}_{Please don't eat da 🐑!} 08:36, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Technically such pages comply with the rules, see WD:N criterion 3. The village of Vuhly (Q20465835) was a part of Bobynichi Volost (Q125523037) until 1924 (the start of the Soviet rule).
Volost is an analogue of subdistrict or township, I guess...
Also, I could suggest to add this historical source (list of volost's in Vitebsk region).
What do we do? It just may be expanded, there is nothing 'criminally' wrong with these items. Such items are also not completely empty. --Wolverène (talk) 08:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Don’t care bye! See other post. Thanks - Da Lamb^{Talk to me!}_{Please don't eat da 🐑!} 08:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

I have responded to you there. I have nothing more to say. --Wolverène (talk) 09:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

P.S. I see that literally nobody cares, just a record for the history -- the item was created just two hours ago and looks like there is still a work on it. --Wolverène (talk) 10:17, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Timeline template and Item Documentation

I saw you put {{Timeline}} template on a person template recently. Maybe it is more appropriate to generalize that a bit and push it into {{Item documentation}} somewhere so that it appears on all person's talk page ? author  TomT0m / talk page 13:10, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

In fact, I just did not want to leave the talk page empty. I would rather delete the talk page, I am not quite sure if this template was really helpful for somebody. --Wolverène (talk) 13:15, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

My 10th Anniversary

It's been exactly 10 years since I joined Wikidata and Wikipedia. The reason to congratulate myself on this! 🎉 --Wolverène (talk) 09:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Congrats, sir! Heroldicas (talk) 09:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Eden Golan

As per your comment, when you protected her page her Q81436819, I posted on her talk page. If you could please take a look. Thank you. And congrats on your 10 year anniversary! A wonderful accomplishment. MaskedSinger (talk) 11:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello (shalom?) and thank you! I have responded to you there and fixed a little something... --Wolverène (talk) 14:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Incorrect labels at Madagascar (Q1019)

On this edit to Madagascar (Q1019), incorrect labels were added. Because that page is semi-protected, I cannot undo the edit. I'm asking if you can. Also, about the mass edits on Hailey's On It! (Q118145112), I can explain why they were made. In most of those languages (like Breton and Corsican), the original title is used because there is no title in those languages. However, Haitian Creole uses the French titles, Emiliano-Romagnolo uses the Italian titles, and Alemannic uses the German titles. This is because Haitian Creole is similar to French, Emiliano-Romagnolo is similar to Italian, and Alemannic is the Swiss dialect of German. Finally, on Kali Rocha (Q437449), there is no Ukrainian label despite having the Ukrainian description. Do you know who could add the Ukrainian label? There is also no Malayalam label, despite having the Malayalam description. I also want to request an article on Hailey's On It! in Luxembourgish, because I've seen you expand the one on Liv and Maddie (Q8172269). I also want to request Russian and German articles on Gordy (Q288138) and expand the Luxembourgish article on Wizards of Waverly Place (Q184342). Thank you for hearing this. 2602:306:3384:B280:6F93:49ED:AB76:E8B 17:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

1) I do not recommend to add labels if you are not sure if they are existing in a specific language, or if you do not know how the Wikipedia projects name the articles. The labels are not an obligatory thing. For example, on Q118145112 I set the Luxembourgish label as 'Hailey's On It!' because I know that the lbWP is using the original names in the article titles although, it would seem to us that the French or German names are the most typical for Luxembourg (even if some lb translation exists). I set the Veps label as 'Heilil om azj!' because the vepWP tends to translate the titles from the names accepted in Russian (local lingua-franca) literally, so I could not set the label 'Хейли в деле!' for Veps although for the speakers this name is obviously the most recognizable and the series will almost certainly be never translated into Veps. If you are not know which names are acceptable for each language, no need in experiments! Assuming of a similarity is not a valid thing too, sometimes it may look conflict-generating -- e.g. imagine adding a Spanish-language name as the Catalan label, or adding a Russian name as the Ukrainian label. Also, some edits within that editing were obiously incorrect -- like, a speaker of any Slavic language could see that this description is incorrect because of the mismatch of the gender endings in the adjectives; in Bulgarian it should sound as 'американски анимационен сериал' (fixed). I do not speak Bulgarian but it caught my eye. :)

2) Q1019 is fixed.

3) I have added the Ukrainian label for Q437449 myself, I have no idea what to do with the Malayalam label, perfectly not familiar with their abugida. Sooner or later it will surely be appeared.

4) I have just very basic skills of German and Luxembourgish. Also the local article policy in the deWP is somewhat strict so I may be failed creating a sub-stub in German, I am not sure which size and which degree of notability are acceptable for them. I could create a couple of stub-class articles in Luxembourgish, with a hope that I will not mess with the wording. :) I also may create the Russian article about Gordy later but I do not promise.

Thank you for attention. --Wolverène (talk) 05:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)