Wikidata:Property proposal/Anais do Museu Paulista article ID

Anais do Museu Paulista article ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

   Done: Anais do Museu Paulista article ID (P8586) (Talk and documentation)

Description	identifier for a scholarly article in the Anais do Museu Paulista
Represents	Anais do Museu Paulista: História e Cultura Material (Q50426299)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	scholarly article (Q13442814)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d{0,6}
Example 1	Revista do Museu Paulista e(m) capas - identidade e representação institucional em texto e imagem (Q92684380) → 53560
Example 2	PCH - a preservação do patrimônio cultural e natural como política regional e urbana (Q92684777) → 119847
Example 3	Religiosidade e suas manifestações no espaço urbano de Salvador (Q92684615) → 103878
Source	http://www.revistas.usp.br/
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	add all existing article IDs to existing articles from Anais do Museu Paulista in Wikidata
Number of IDs in source	504+ immediately, 1500+ from inception, publication ongoing
Expected completeness	is complete for existing Wikidata items only (Q60447462)
Formatter URL	http://www.revistas.usp.br/anaismp/article/view/$1
Country	Brazil (Q155)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

This property serves as a unique identifier for article-level works in the Anais do Museu Paulista, the scholarly publication of the Paulista Museum in São Paulo, Brazil, published 1922-present. The ID will be added in batch form to the large body of articles from the journal already in Wikidata as part of a large-scale grant project.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Prburley (talk • contribs) at 14:58, 13 August 2020 (UTC).

Discussion

•  Wait I am not convinced that we need this property, especially for a small collection of only 500 articles. Currently, the articles are all already linked with full work available at URL (P953) and I would rather suggest to add a DOI number to the articles instead. --Hannes Röst (talk) 15:38, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
  •  Strong oppose We currently have 18943 instances of academic journal (Q737498) and I strongly oppose to create this property for a single journal. The case could be made for every single one of the 18k journals to create a similar property, I dont think that is a great way to model the concept of an article id honestly. However, we already have article ID (P2322), why not use that instead? Would that work for your purpose? What do you think @Mike Peel, Joalpe, Prburley:, would that work? --Hannes Röst (talk) 15:16, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

 Support This is one of the most important journals in Brazil, being published for a century. The identifier will contribute to the curation of the database of scholarly items from this journal in a project that Wikimedians from Brazil have been very active at. --Joalpe (talk) 16:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

•  Support per Joalpe and Prburley. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:39, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
•  Strong support —Eihel (talk) 02:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• @Prburley, Hannes Röst, Joalpe, Mike Peel, Eihel:  Done as Anais do Museu Paulista article ID (P8586). Thierry Caro (talk) 06:48, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

@Thierry Caro: why was this property created, current policy is to achieve consensus which was not done here. Quote: "All opposing points of discussion should be addressed before creation occurs." My point was not addressed at all in any shape or form. While I am happy to be overruled, I think doing so without a substantiated discussion is not the way to go. --Hannes Röst (talk)

Grüezi Hannes Röst, P2322 was created at a time when only this property was suitable for certain uses (see all discussions related to this property). For the point that you raise, you notified users and Joalpe has already replied you. Being at the origin of this precise point of the recommendations, it is important to quote and read the whole criterion. An opposing opinion, even on a multitude of contrary opinions, must be a typically blocking opinion for the creation, in order to avoid errors for example. Your opinion doesn't fall into this category. For example, an opinion of a bad datatype blocks the creation. The property creator doesn't need to reply you expressly and the discussion doesn't need to reach consensus. …it is up to the property creator to consider the thoughtfulness and logic behind points of discussion… simply means that the creator should use WD:UCS. Having said that, if you want a reply, the fact that countless properties exist for scientific journals is not a valid criterion to prevent the creation of a property in the sense of knowledge sharing (primary goal of Wikimedia). So, I see no problem in creating this property. Cordially. —Eihel (talk) 01:46, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

ps. You still have the option of proposing the property for deletion, but I doubt you will be successful. —Eihel (talk) 01:57, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@Eihel: thanks for your comment, but if you look at the history then you can see that Joalpe actually did not reply to my comment (his statement was earlier). In context this also becomes clear, I never disputed the fact that the journal is important, I only raised the point whether this is the right approach here. I made a suggestion to achieve the same goal with article ID (P2322) and even if that is not suitable, I would much rather support a property that works for all 18k journals than one that only works for a single journal. I feel I never got an answer why such an approach would not work here. --Hannes Röst (talk) 05:26, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

the fact that countless properties exist for scientific journals that was not my point, my point was the opposite: currently such properties dont exist and my point was that it would make much more sense to create a property that is re-useable for other journals as well. --Hannes Röst (talk) 05:26, 7 September 2020 (UTC)