Wikidata:Property proposal/Change template-topic property names and scopes

Change template-topic property names and scopes

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Done

Description	Rename template has topic (P1423) to template has topic and topic's main template (P1424) to topic has template
Data type	Item
Template parameter	no
Domain	instance of (P31) Wikimedia template (Q11266439)
Allowed values	Not categories
Example 1	Template:Infobox song (Q9001861) -> template has topic -> song (Q7366)
Example 2	Template:Real Madrid CF managers (Q8084244) -> template has topic -> association football manager (Q628099) and Real Madrid CF (Q8682)
Example 3	Template:2018 elections in Germany (Q56284375) -> template has topic -> 2018 (Q25291) and elections in Germany (Q327765)
Example 4	Template:Slovakia in the Eurovision Song Contest (Q6470065) -> template has topic -> Slovakia (Q214) and Eurovision Song Contest (Q276)
Example 5	song (Q7366) -> topic has template -> Template:Infobox song (Q9001861) (Inverse of Example 1)
Example 6	association football manager (Q628099) -> topic has template -> Template:Real Madrid CF managers (Q8084244) and Real Madrid CF (Q8682) -> topic has template -> Template:Real Madrid CF managers (Q8084244) (Inverse of Example 2)
Robot and gadget jobs	Check constraints. Import these relations.

Motivation

Current proposal

I suggested in the Former Proposal Discussion that we:

1. Rename template has topic (P1423) to template has topic.
2. Rename topic's main template (P1424) to topic has template

Many templates cover a number of topics, and the past proposal suggested making a new property. However, I and the original author Data Gamer (and partially Tinker Bell) agree that changing the name/scope of the current properties that are inverses of each other would be a better choice.

This establishes a system comparable to that of part of (P361)/has part(s) (P527).

The inverse statement will be required for both of these.

--Lectrician1 (talk) 20:24, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Former proposal

Disregard, for reference only

Similar to category combines topics (P971) for templates. The property should be added to better describe the templates. See Wikidata:Project chat#Template combines topics. template has topic (P1423) is not enough in some cases, if we don't have an item that can describe both of the topics of the template. For example,

• Template:Real Madrid CF managers (Q8084244) -> Template combines topics -> association football manager (Q628099) and Real Madrid CF (Q8682)

or

• Template:2018 elections in Germany (Q56284375) -> Template combines topics -> 2018 (Q25291) and elections in Germany (Q327765)

or

• Template:Slovakia in the Eurovision Song Contest (Q6470065) -> Template combines topics -> Slovakia (Q214) and Eurovision Song Contest (Q276)

(here we also have Slovakia in the Eurovision Song Contest (Q464852) for use with template has topic (P1423), but we don't have for all topics, like managers of a specific teams, elections of a year in specific country etc.)

Data Gamer ^play 21:18, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

Current Proposal

The proposal has been changed to a 2-way property name/scope change proposal from a proposal that suggested making a new property. Therefore, no property-creation admin will be required. The proposal is remaining in this format so that discussion can be centralized here instead of having 2 on each of the talk pages of the properties being changed. Those talk pages will be notified of this proposal. I am giving this a 1-week timeframe for discussion on support/opposition.
--Lectrician1 (talk) 20:24, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

 Support Data Gamer ^play 19:47, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

•  Oppose we don't widen scope of topic's main category (P910), we have another category combines topics (P971) instead. Get a point? --Infovarius (talk) 22:05, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
  • @Infovarius: I think you meant "don't widen the scope of template has topic (P1423)", correct? Or you could be proposing renaming template has topic (P1423) to "template combines topics"? I'm confused.
    We already have template or module that populates category (P4329). Also, this is meant for topic-template relationships. It's meant to complete the entire interconnected system of Wikimedia Categories, topics (Wikimedia articles), and Wikimedia templates. --Lectrician1 (talk) 01:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
    • Yes, don't widen this template and if you want create another "template combines topics". How do you like Q11032#P1424? And expanding... --Infovarius (talk) 22:44, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
      • @Infovarius: It has been changed back to the original property definition. --Lectrician1 (talk) 17:35, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Former Proposal Discussion

Disregard, for reference only

•  Weak oppose I would suggest broading P971 scope, instead of creating a new property. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 19:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
  • @Tinker Bell: is for categories. It will be problematic to have the same property for templates I think. Data Gamer ^play 11:51, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
    • @Data Gamer: There's no reason for not using this on templates too, or in any other place. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 18:59, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
      • @Tinker Bell: Ok. If others users agree, let's just change P971 scope. Should I ask somewhere else about that? Data Gamer ^play 02:13, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
        • @Data Gamer: You can ask on the P971 talk page. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 03:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
    • category combines topics (P971) is only meant for categories and used accordingly. I don't see any added value of applying it to a somewhat different usecase of templates. Also, we have different "main topic" properties for each. --- Jura 07:50, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Is there any other suggestions? So far, there is no reason for not creating the property. And there is no other way to add the informations. Data Gamer ^play 12:07, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

I found another example of an item that needs this. Template:Tracked (Q4481730) describes two software management softwares used by Wikimedia: The current one Phabricator (Q16509734), and the former one Bugzilla (Q55671). I guess you could put them in a category called "Wikimedia Project Management Software Suites". Lectrician1 (talk) 04:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Any others suggestions? Data Gamer ^play 12:18, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Not to completely disrupt the current properties, but why don't we just have something like template has topic and topic has template. This would allow for multiple values to be put under one template has topic property and establish a similar scheme to part of (P361)/has part(s) (P527).

--Lectrician1 (talk) 20:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Ok, it is a good solution. Data Gamer ^play 15:14, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Then could I or you change the proposal to be:

1. Rename template has topic (P1423) to template has topic.
2. Rename topic's main template (P1424) to topic has template

--Lectrician1 (talk) 06:54, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Do it. Data Gamer ^play 09:23, 27 January 2021 (UTC)