Wikidata:Property proposal/Qualifications

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Prerequisite

[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Done: prerequisite (P4967) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptiona prior event or achievement that a person or team needs to complete before joining or obtaining the item topic, for example a qualifying round of a sports event, a lower-level course in an educational program, or a lower level of a professional qualification
Representsprofessional qualification (Q3412758), sports qualification event (Q2122052), educational qualification
Data typeItem
Example
Motivation

Links to introductions of activities ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 15:36, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion
Educational and professional qualifications are not events but acquired achievements. If a MS program requires a previous BS degree, I could have obtained it any time ago, at any accredited institution, and in any number of related disciplines. They are more static, like competition class (P2094) (applies to sports)
Course prerequisites are firmer relations ("must take course X before taking course Y") but they always allow substitution of "equivalent" courses from this or other university, and often allow alternatives.
@Pigsonthewing: I also think genericity is desirable. Sports qualifiers could be modeled as "event X is a necessary predecessor of event Y". I think this is acceptable simplification from "winning/taking/achieving/graduating from X is a necessary prerequisite to participating in Y".
But you know what, I'd be happy to call this "prerequisite" (aliases "qualification", "qualifier") and apply it for both events and acquired achievements. @ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2: do you agree? I could rewrite the proposal in this way --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:44, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
 Support I edited the proposal and support it. See if you're happy with the edits --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 08:04, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: Some parts of the new description are unnecessary for the proposal. So I removed them and translated the rest into Arabic.Greetings ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 08:24, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2: Why did you remove the aliases? They are important, please put them back in --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 09:18, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Vladimir Alexiev: No need for them now.It is better to add them to the property when it is created.Greetings ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 10:06, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Deryck Chan: I understand that you are talking about the importance of qualification. If you create a proposal that has more than one status (more than one property), I am willing to withdraw my proposal and support its new version.Greetings David (talk) 09:20, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Support There is an ongoing discussion relevant to this point at Wikidata_talk:WikiProject Olympics (@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2:) A more generalised "prerequisite" concept seems very well suited to the sports qualification idea. Something key to consider is that qualification for competitions can range from the highly organised (FIFA World Cup qualifying stages) to the highly diffuse (any 100 metres race in the world with sufficient organisation standards could serve as qualification for the Olympic 100 m). I think there are further things we'll need to dig into to add specific prerequisites (e.g. for 2016 Olympic men's 100 metres the prerequisites were a performance of 10.16 seconds, other events may gain selection via world rankings) but I think this is a good start. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 11:31, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relevant qualification

[edit]

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

DescriptionPractitioners of this industry get this degree, licence or certification after specialist education, apprenticeship, or professional review. This includes qualifications that one needs to obtain in order to join the industry or qualifications that one obtains after a certain level of experience in the industry in order to progress further in their career.
Representsprofessional qualification (Q3412758), academic degree (Q189533)
Data typeItem
Domainoccupation (Q12737077)
Allowed valuesinstances and subclasses of professional qualification (Q3412758) or academic degree (Q189533)
Example
Motivation

Splitting into two property proposals per discussion above. Occupations that require a licence (or which issues certifications to practitioners) are another type of logical relationship that David's original proposal would cover. Deryck Chan (talk) 12:56, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

The description should make the non-mandatory nature clear. ChristianKl (✉) 13:04, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Deryck Chan, ChristianKl:I do not see a difference between the two proposals David (talk) 08:01, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re David:
    • In the first proposal ("prerequisite"), the domain of the subject (item) and the domain of the object (value) are the same. A team from Africa must first compete in CONCACAF before they can compete in FIFA World Cup. Both the subject and the object are football competitions.
    • In the second proposal ("relevant qualification"), the domain of the subject is an occupation but the domain of the object is a licence that a person can get. Civil engineering is an occupation which requires its workers to obtain a masters in engineering.
  • I think I can illustrate the difference with this pair of examples:
@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2:The fact that the two proposals have different names is alone enough for them to be different. You shouldn't support proposals when the name isn't ideal but you generally want a property that works for an area. ChristianKl (✉) 13:19, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
 Neutral Per above. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:54, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Support Ok, this split etc. and the two properties make sense to me now. ArthurPSmith (talk) 13:57, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl, Vladimir Alexiev, ArthurPSmith, Pigsonthewing, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Pintoch: @Liuxinyu970226, Deryck Chan: ✓ Done: relevant qualification (P4968). − Pintoch (talk) 10:41, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • I wanted to improve the descr a bit (see below) but got "can't save because longer than 250 chars" (itis 384 chars). But it saved the original descr which was also longer than 250 chars. Weird UI limitation --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 12:07, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • practitioners of this occupation/profession/industry can get that degree, licence or certification after specialist education, apprenticeship, or professional review. Includes qualifications that one needs to obtain in order to practice the occupation, or qualifications that one obtains after a certain level of experience in the industry in order to progress further in their career.
  • I added an example "engineer: relevant qualification=European Engineer; applies to jurisdiction=Europe" mirroring similar data at European Engineer (Q847238).
  • Also added "value type constraint: relation=instance of; class=professional certification" to mirror the existing "type constraint: relation=instance of; class=occupation". Could someone say whether this is correct? Eg I think MS or MD degree are not considered "professional certifications", so can I use a disjunction in class? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 12:19, 3 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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