Wikidata:Property proposal/muscle origin
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muscle origin[edit]
Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science
| Description | the anatomic entity to which the beginning of a muscle is anchored |
|---|---|
| Represents | muscle origin (Q26708757) |
| Data type | Item |
| Domain | muscle (Q7365) |
| Allowed values | anatomical structure (Q4936952) |
| Example | biceps femoris muscle (Q601016) → tuberosity of the ischium (Q7850869) |
muscle insertion[edit]
Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science
| Description | the anatomic entity to which the end of a muscle is anchored |
|---|---|
| Represents | muscle insertion (Q26708759) |
| Data type | Item |
| Domain | muscle (Q7365) |
| Allowed values | anatomical structure (Q4936952) |
| Example | biceps brachii (Q201363) → radial tuberosity (Q719213) |
- Motivation
I want to have all the properties contained in the en.Wiki infoboxes for muscles in Wikidata. ChristianKl (talk) 20:05, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- @ChristianKl: Then propose a set of properties. We'll discuss all at once. author TomT0m / talk page 08:54, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- I added muscle insertion and origin together because that's a pair that belongs together. Theoretically it would also be possible to use a wider term here but I can't come up with a clear definition for a term that's broader. I create a distinct discussion for arteries as that concerns more than muscles. ChristianKl (talk) 18:09, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- Discussion
Support both. Thryduulf (talk) 01:09, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine. Thryduulf (talk) 01:09, 31 October 2016 (UTC)- Comment I think it's useful to have properties for muscle origin and insertion, but they should allow to account for differences between species and between subpopulations within a species. To stick with the biceps brachii example, Functional adaptations in the forelimb muscles of non-human great apes (Q27649028) states: "The biceps brachii usually arises from the coracoid process of the scapula (short head) and the supraglenoid tuberosity of the scapula (long head) in primates (Sonntag, 1924; Miller, 1952; Kimura & Takai, 1970; Swindler & Wood, 1973; Youlatos, 2000). However, in the orangutan specimen Oaf the long head was monoarticular, arising from the top of the lateral side of the humerus, just below the bicipital groove. The short head originated as normal from the coracoid process of the scapula. The origin of biceps brachii in the gorilla specimens Gsm and Gam also differed in that the tendon of the long head originated from below the supraglenoid tuberosity on the dorsum of the scapula." --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 01:23, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- Daniel's statement is compelling. If this is to be used then from the beginning there ought to be a plan to note for which species it applies. Blue Rasberry (talk) 12:54, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- We have applies to taxon (P2352), although that would need broadening from just toxological doses. Alternatively a new qualifier "applies to organisms" could be created, which would allow values of species, genera, or other grouping e.g. "male <type of animal>" if required. Thryduulf (talk) 17:40, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
- I would be in favour of decoupling the definition of applies to taxon (P2352) from toxicology — such an "applies to taxon" property could be useful for many kinds of information more generally, and phenotypic information in particular, from cases like eye color (P1340) (currently human-only) to the incubation period proposals below.
- This would not address the inter-individual variability within a species, e.g. as per Anatomic Variations Found on Dissection of Depressor Septi Nasi Muscles in Cadavers (Q27681992), which states: "Three variations were found in muscle insertion points: periosteal, orbicularis oris, and floating. Forty-four percent of the muscles were inserted into the periosteum of the maxilla (n = 36); 39% of muscles were inserted into the orbicularis oris muscle (n = 32); and 17% were diminutive or floating (n = 14)."
- Another thing I am wondering about is whether we should go for something like "enthesis location" for this property to handle ligaments and muscles in the same way (perhaps with a qualifier applies to part (P518) for the latter, to be set to muscle origin (Q26708757) or muscle insertion (Q26708759)). --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 22:05, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
- We have applies to taxon (P2352), although that would need broadening from just toxological doses. Alternatively a new qualifier "applies to organisms" could be created, which would allow values of species, genera, or other grouping e.g. "male <type of animal>" if required. Thryduulf (talk) 17:40, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
- Daniel's statement is compelling. If this is to be used then from the beginning there ought to be a plan to note for which species it applies. Blue Rasberry (talk) 12:54, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
- In cases where it's different for different species we can put the information in items like human musculus biceps brachii (Q25950351). ChristianKl (talk) 10:51, 18 November 2016 (UTC)