Talk:Q132241

Festival hierarchy proposal

The most noteworthy festival-like things are the concepts of festivals themselves, no matter which year they are held. There are many festivals where we consider the concept noteworthy, but its yearly editions not noteworthy (like the 5162th or so edition of a summer festival at some city).

Basic hierarchy

So. Things like Eurovision Song Contest (Q276) and Olympic Games (Q5389) are instances of festival (Q132241). Strictly speaking - they should be defined as instances of a thematic festival (Q132241) subclass, like music festival (Q868557) and recurring sporting event (Q18608583).

Yearly editions of festival (Q132241), like Eurovision Song Contest 2016 (Q6015709) and 2016 Summer Olympics (Q8613), are instances of festival edition (Q27968043). Strictly speaking - they can be instances of a thematic festival edition (Q27968043) subclass, like music festival edition (Q41582469) and sports competition (Q13406554) - however this seems a bit repetitive, because we already have this information on the festival (Q132241)s themselves. We may consider dropping these subclasses.

It's recommended to specify edition number (P393), point in time (P585), follows (P155) and followed by (P156) on every festival edition (Q27968043) instance.

Discussion

This is how it always was with non-sports festival (Q132241)s. In the sports domain, it was quite chaotic, but recurring sporting event (Q18608583) exists since 2014 (under the name "recurring sporting event"). LEW21 (talk) 23:54, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Editions - instances or parts of festivals?

Option 1 - editions are instances of festivals

Every festival (Q132241) instance is defined as a subclass of (P279) festival edition (Q27968043) (or its thematic subclass).

Every festival edition (Q27968043) instance is defined as an instance of (P31) the corresponding festival (Q132241) instance (so Eurovision Song Contest 2016 (Q6015709) is an instance of Eurovision Song Contest (Q276), that is an instance of festival (Q132241)). It becomes an instance of (P31) festival edition (Q27968043) implicitly - thru the subclass of (P279) defined above.

If we keep thematic festival edition (Q27968043) subclasses: Every festival (Q132241) subclass that has a corresponding festival edition (Q27968043) subclass has it defined as [TODO find a property for that]

Example organized this way:

• Eurovision Song Contest (Q276) / Eurovision Song Contest 2016 (Q6015709)
• Summer Olympic Games (Q159821) / 2016 Summer Olympics (Q8613)

Option 2 - editions are parts of festivals

Every festival edition (Q27968043) instance is defined as an instance of (P31) festival edition (Q27968043) (or its thematic subclass).

Every festival edition (Q27968043) instance is defined as a part of the series (P179) the corresponding festival (Q132241) instance (so Eurovision Song Contest 2016 (Q6015709) is a part of Eurovision Song Contest (Q276), that is an instance of festival (Q132241)).

If we keep thematic festival edition (Q27968043) subclasses: Every festival (Q132241) subclass that has a corresponding festival edition (Q27968043) subclass has it defined as has part(s) of the class (P2670).

Example organized this way:

• Gay Games (Q1130199) / 2018 Gay Games (Q55978808)
• Cypriot First Division (Q155965) / 2018–19 Cypriot First Division (Q52151351) and the whole sports league (Q623109) / sports season (Q27020041) hierarchy (using sports season of league or competition (P3450) instead of part of the series (P179))

Side note: I think sports season of league or competition (P3450) should be deprecated and replaced by part of the series (P179) (or by instance of (P31), if we choose the option 1).

Discussion

I prefer the option 2, but I don't really have any arguments for either of them. Each one can be converted to the other automatically. LEW21 (talk) 23:54, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Sport festival - single events

Single events (like a single race, or a match) that happen during a sports competition (Q13406554) are instances of sporting event (Q16510064). They should have their results defined.

General discussion

Feel free to do any corrections / add other options that you find useful. I'll probably add some more text tommorow. LEW21 (talk) 23:54, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

User:MisterSynergy, is this a good place for this proposal? I've put it here, so others will be able to find it in the future if they open the festival discussion page. If there is some better place - you can move it. Also, can you help with notifying other people that can be interested in this discussion? LEW21 (talk) 23:54, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

author  TomT0m / talk page 12:06, 15 February 2020 (UTC) LEW21 (talk) 08:13, 17 February 2020 (UTC) MisterSynergy (talk) 08:44, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Notified participants of WikiProject Recurring events who may be the right place for this discussion. author  TomT0m / talk page 12:07, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Regarding types of festival vs. named festivals: It seems to me that a separate class "festival type" should be created for festival subspecies to only mark the subtypes of festivals with it. While none of the individual festivals (with their own name) should be a subclass of "festival", there should only be festival subtypes. So then, named festivals should be marked as P31 by some specific festival type, or have a separate "form of event/event type" property and have only "festival" in P31. The latter scheme is already in use with musical or literary works and seems most effective, with specific property form of creative work (P7937). And if there will be no agreement on a new property, then we should probably place types in has characteristic (P1552).

Summarily:

1) "musical festival" / "folk festival" / "street festival" should be instance of = "festival type", subclasses of "festival"

2) Eurovision Song Contenst. NOT subclass of festival

2a) it's p31 = music festival

2b) it's p31 = festival ; with new property "form of event" = "music festival".

2c) it's p31 = festival ; with "has quality" = "music festival".

What do you think would be best here?Solidest (talk) 21:49, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Made form of festival (Q108680062) to group all the types Solidest (talk) 20:28, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

@Solidest Wikidata users seem to have a preference for highly granular taxonomies stated directly as P31 values. Of all three strategies you propose for the Eurovision, I definitely think 2a is the most likely to be naturally and broadly adopted by the community. I really like how you used main subject (P921) to describe what a given festival type is about. Personally, that's how I would model all festivals: P31=festival + P221 to define the focus/theme. But we need to be realistic: that's not how most Wikimedians would represent festivals so it's probably better to go with the flow. Fjjulien (talk) 04:10, 2 December 2021 (UTC)