Talk:Q5127848

subclass of what

• entity (Q35120) - isn't connected using P279
• abstraction (Q673661) - would lead to human mind at least (mental representation (Q2145290))

d1g (talk) 11:11, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Q5127848: philosophical term denoting a group .... So Q5127848 is group (Q16887380) --Fractaler (talk) 11:16, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't understand difference between Q16887380 and Q5127848. d1g (talk) 19:27, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Any reason to avoid P279 Q5127848 at this item? d1g (talk) 19:34, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Probably you mean "P279 Q16887380". Q16887380 is currently itself a subclass of Q5127848, so you would start to run in circles, then. Q5127848 is (at least according to the description of Q16887380) broader: Its members don't have to have similarities, they can be given by sheer chance.

By the way: what do you want to express via depicts (P180) class (Q17519152)? This doesn't make sense to me. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 20:01, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

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Let's re-open this discussion. There is a list (as exception to constraint (P2303) on subclass of (P279)) of (at one time) accepted direct subclasses of the root node, entity (Q35120) -- and this is the only one on that list that isn't (currently) such a direct subclass. @Pasleim: was the one who originally set this a direct subclass of entity (Q35120), back in 2014; @Fractaler: added subclass of (P279) of group (Q16887380) in 2016; @Abián: removed Pasleim's original assignment in 2017, leaving just group (Q16887380) as the only superclass; @Valentina.Anitnelav:, 2 months later, changed it back to the original state of only being a subclass of entity (Q35120). 2 months after that, @D1gggg: added a second superclass, abstract entity (Q7184903). Then in 2020, @The-erinaceous-one: added a third superclass, collective entity (Q99527517). Finally, @Jochem van Hees: removed the entity (Q35120) superclass less than 6 months ago.

I've ping'ed all of you so we (and anyone else interested) can hopefully come to a consensus on what this item's superclass(s?) should be, and hopefully document it clearly enough on this talk page that no-one will be tempted to change it again. :-) JesseW (talk) 01:35, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I think that the way it looks now is fine? I removed the subclass of (P279)entity (Q35120) statement because that was already implicit through the other P279 statements. ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 02:31, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree. I think it looks good now. I don't think group (Q16887380) fits. The description of group (Q16887380) is "a well-defined collection of discrete entities who choose or are assigned to be part of a collective whole", which implies some act of grouping items together, whereas a class is a (metaphysical) thing that exists without anything needing to be done. We had some related discussions the talk page for group (Q16887380). (Note that group (Q16887380) is a subclass of collective entity (Q99527517)). — The Erinaceous One 🦔 05:04, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the current state. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:51, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks to you both. I'm also generally fine with the way it is now, although there's also the oddity that D1gggg marked abstract entity (Q7184903) as preferred rank, which makes collective entity (Q99527517) not show up in the hierarchy. This seems mistaken, so I've fixed that. I'll wait a few more days in case anyone else has comments, then remove this from the exception to constraint (P2303) list on subclass of (P279), so it's presence doesn't confuse anyone else later. JesseW (talk) 19:50, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

And (somewhat later than I meant to) I've done so, here. JesseW (talk) 14:01, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Different English and Spanish descriptions

The Spanish description restricts this concept to a group with explicitly stated members. The English & Chinese descriptions includes groups that either have explicitly stated members or whose membership is intensionally defined. The meaning should be decided on and all descriptions should accurately denote that meaning. (talk) 2:43, 9 February 2023 (UTC)