Wikidata talk:Wikidata Lexeme Forms/Estonian

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verbs[edit]

@Lucas_Werkmeister: hope I am doing it right.. @Reosarevok: could you please verify and amend, wherever necessary, a section for "verbs"? thanks!  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62mkv (talk • contribs) at 15:35, 28 April 2019‎ (UTC).[reply]

@62mkv: pings only work if you also include a signature (~~~~) in the same edit. (CC Reosarevok) --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 15:40, 28 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@62mkv: I noticed a few things while transcribing the template:
@Lucas Werkmeister: All the forms proposed are taken from Eesti Õigekeelsus Sõnaraamat 2018. So, subjunctive (Q473746) simple past (Q1392475) impersonal verb (Q1509829) is "oleks lubatud", and subjunctive (Q473746) simple past (Q1392475) impersonal verb (Q1509829) negation (Q1478451) is "ei oleks lubatud"/"poleks lubatud", so these don't generate/require new forms of a lexeme lubama. Another great resource to validate this submission is Cooljugator --62mkv (talk) 02:16, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lucas Werkmeister: That was indeed a copy-paste, should've been fixed now. --62mkv (talk) 02:16, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lucas Werkmeister: This should, of course, be possible, the problem is I only learn Estonian, so I cannot yet propose some forms while being confident that those are correct. It's really difficult for me to invent examples for this particular verb (which means 'to permit'). Is using a different verb in examples allowed ? --62mkv (talk) 02:16, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@62mkv: I'm also not a native speaker, but I've asked in Wikimedia Eesti's Slack to see if someone has the time to take a look and make sure it is ok :) Let's see! --Reosarevok (talk) 07:29, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@62mkv, Reosarevok: Uh, okay… can you at least tell me next time that you’re not native speakers? I have to completely trust you with the quality of these templates, I can’t verify them myself!
(And sure, this is slightly hypocritical of me, since I created some Latin and English templates, but at least there aren’t any native Latin speakers left alive and I asked others to review the English ones.)
I’m going to wait if any of the people you contacted leave feedback, because transcribing this whole thing a second time will be bad enough, and I really don’t want to do it a third time.
@Lucas Werkmeister: I understand, this is fair enough.. may be it's possible for you to share a more formal template that I could fill-in myself to avoid wasting your time? I am a software developer so this should not be impossible. Concerning "native vs non-native".. to be honest, this is the kind of activity I would never bother with being a native speaker. It's tedious and painful and why bother if you already know the stuff? I am going to use for me and other peopler like me who're only learning Estonian, and being able to find all the forms is one of the trickiest aspects of this language.. But of course I would also suggest waiting till any native speaker will have a chance to provide his feedback --62mkv (talk) 11:48, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@62mkv: To answer your third question, you’re allowed to use any verb you like! But it can be tricky to find one that makes sense with a wide range of nouns (you don’t want to use “I love [puppies]” as the example sentence and put someone who later wants to create the noun “racism” in an awkward spot, for example). --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 22:31, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lucas Werkmeister: Chances of our native Estonians bothering to look into this are much higher if it's already mostly done and they just need to fix a few small issues, to be fair (we don't have so many of them in the first place!) :) The noun ones have been reviewed already back in the day, and the verb ones should get reviewed in a few days (I'll pester our people about it) :) --Reosarevok (talk) 09:37, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lucas Werkmeister:@Reosarevok: I've removed all the duplicated forms; now only "decent" examples are missing. Hope to attract some native speakers tomorrow. Thanks! --62mkv (talk) 07:56, 1 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lucas_Werkmeister: This has been checked by native speakers now and should be correct, but it was unclear to them whether we wanted, say, a form like this one (which is just the verb "olema" + a participle, similar to "have been" etc in English), or whether these composite forms should just be expected to be built from combining the participle and the other verb. I see English seems to just list the participle? I was hoping to compare with other languages I understand but neither French nor Spanish actually have verbs yet, it seems... --Reosarevok (talk) 21:49, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Reosarevok: Hm, okay, that’s a tricky case, not sure how to model that. Is there another good place where it could be discussed? Because when I started this tool I didn’t really think of it as a place where these kinds of data model questions would be discussed/decided, but only as a tool to accelerate the creation of forms for kinds of words where some data model was already decided in manually created lexemes, and I’m not yet really prepared for these new situations now :/ (though I’ve contributed to that myself, with the “German verb” template). --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 12:20, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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