Talk:Q49683

Flag of the Principality

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  The flag of the last years
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  Not recorded in historical sources

The flag of the last years of the principality is preserved - File:Pahonia. Пагоня (1764-92).jpg.
On this basis, a contemporary drawing was made - File:Flag of the Slonim County (1764-1792).svg.
File:Royal banner of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.svg: Not recorded in historical records and is the fantasy of the author. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 13:19, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Now the article contains two links (first, second), which supposedly confirm this image (File:Royal banner of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.svg). However, it is not. I think the image needs to be replaced. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 16:41, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it is correct to assume that the GDL had its own state/national flag, but File:Pahonia. Пагоня (1764-92).jpg was a real military flag of the GDL in 1764—1792 according to the reliable source, a book written by Belarusian historian and heraldist en:Anatol Tsitou. On the other hand there are no sources that File:Royal banner of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.svg was ever used historically. So File:Royal banner of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.svg definitely should be removed. --Kazimier Lachnovič (talk) 17:55, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Orthodoxy in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania

Cathedral of the Assumption of the Virgin in Vilna, founded by the Grand Duke Olgerd (Algirdas) in 1346. Cathedral of the Metropolitans of Kiev and All Russia in the 15th-16th centuries. The building was reconstructed in the middle of the 19th century.

A separate Eastern Orthodox metropolitan eparchy was created sometime between 1315 and 1317 by Constantinople Patriarch John XIII. Following the Galicia–Volhynia Wars which divided the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia between the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland, in 1355 the Halych metropoly was liquidated and its eparchies transferred to the metropoles of Lithuania and Volhynia.

In 1387, Lithuania converted to Catholicism, while most of the Ruthenian lands stayed Orthodox, however, on 22 February 1387, Supreme Duke Jogaila banned Catholics marriages with Orthodox, and demanded those Orthodox who previously married with the Catholics to convert to Catholicism. At one point, though, Pope Alexander VI reprimanded the Grand Duke for keeping non-Catholics as advisers. Consequently, only in 1563 Grand Duke Sigismund II Augustus issued a privilege which equalized the rights of Orthodox and Catholics in Lithuania and abolished all previous restrictions on Orthodox. There was an effort to polarise Orthodox Christians after the Union of Brest in 1596, by which some Orthodox Christians acknowledged papal authority and Catholic catechism, but preserved their liturgy. The country also became one of the major centres of the Reformation.

--Лобачев Владимир (talk) 10:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

The Orthodox Church was not at on equal standing with the Catholic Church in the medieval Lithuanian state, because the Catholic religion was elevated above all others in the state. Catholicism was the State's religion. There is not a single state document that states otherwise. In addition, although the Orthodox might have been a majority at certain times, this was not the case during the whole existence of the Lithuanian State, especially following the Union of Brest in 1596 and as time progressed, Catholics, including the Roman Catholics, the Greek rite Catholics (Uniates) and the Armenian Catholics, formed a clear majority. If Orthodox Christians accept the Pope and Catholic teaching, then they are fully Catholic and no longer Orthodox, no matter if their liturgy is unchanged.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 12:46, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Colleague, I know your opinion, but it cannot serve as a basis for adding or deleting information. Above are the sources that the majority of the lands of the principality (Slavic) were mainly Orthodoxy. Please, either bring source, who say that Orthodoxy was very insignificantly widespread in the principality, or return "Orthodoxy". --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 16:30, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

• Andrew Wilson, a British historian specializing in Eastern Europe, writes in his book Belarus: The Last European Dictatorship (Yale University Press, 2012): The Grand Duchy had separate [Orthodox] metropolitans during 1316–1330, 1354–61, and 1375–1389’, which were based at Navahrudak and Vilna, including the eparchies of Polatsk and Turaw, ‘but was unable to consistently maintain its own Grand Duchy Orthodox Church separate from the metropolitans of greater Rus. <...> ‘Litva’ was for a time a de facto Lithuanian-Rus state (p. 48) <...> The Orthodox had half the seats on the Vilna city corporation. Unlike in later eras, eastern Slavs dominated the urban population, but not in every city – Vilna had a Ruthenian quarter in the north-east of the city. <...> But back in the sixteenth century, the Ruthenians had the grandest churches in town, such as the St Michael built by Prince Ostrozskyi in the Gothic style in 1514, and the St Archangel Michael endowed by Lew Sapieha, the chancellor of the Grand Duchy (p. 39). Moreover, another historian specializing in the history of Central and Eastern Europe Dr. Prof. Timothy D. Snyder writes in his book The Reconstruction of Nations: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, 1569-1999 (Yale University Press, 2003): Even before the Krewo Union of 1385, Lithuania was in religion and in language rather an Orthodox Slavic than a pagan Baltic country. Jogaila’s promise of conversion to Catholic Christianity applied to himself and remaining pagans: most of his realm, and many of his relatives, were already Orthodox Christians. The result of Jogaila’s conversion was not so much the Christianization of a pagan country as the introduction of Roman Catholicism into a largely Orthodox country (p. 17). --Kazimier Lachnovič (talk) 17:55, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
• Orthodox Metropolitanate of Lithuania сreated between 1315 and 1317. Olgerd (Algirdas) revived the metropolitanate again in 1355. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 13:59, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

• The Orthodox Metropolis was formed by the decision of the Constantinople Patriarchate for the Orthodox population of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the middle in the 1320s during the reign of Gedimin with the center in Novgorodok (modern Belarus). Source: Orthodox Encyclopedia

  --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 08:35, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

File:Alex K Grundwald flags 1410-03.svg

Author: Alex Tora

diff
Is there a source that shows the image of the flag of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (not a separate regiment) with such a shape (geometry) and such colors? Or is it the author's fantasy? --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 17:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

• Drawing (geometry) of flag were used without any justification and references to the writing in authoritative sources. Their form is taken from the flags of the Teutonic Order during the Battle of Grunwald.

Here are some flags of the Teutonic Order:

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--Лобачев Владимир (talk) 12:34, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• Here are two flags from the time of Vytautas.

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They depict a knight in golden armor (definitely not white). The shape of the flag is square. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 12:45, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Territory and ethnic composition

Grand Duchy of Lithuania 1462 within modern boundaries

Sergey Elizarov History of Belarus in the context of European civilization, 2014:

In the middle of the XIV century, Russian lands occupied two-thirds of the territory of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, amounting to more than 300 thousand km². At the same time, Lithuania itself with Samogitia (ethnic Lithuania) - less than 30%.

Under the Grand Duke Olgerd, the country's territory reached 630 thousand km², the share of ethnic Lithuanian lands decreased to 14%.

Was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania really Lithuanian?:

At its peak, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania did control lands well beyond ethnic Lithuania and, at the time, just 30% of its people were ethnic Lithuanians.

--Лобачев Владимир (talk) 19:18, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Vilna Governorate, 1864. Statistical table of the Western Russian region of the Russian Empire, by confession:

Orthodox Belarusians - 147 504 persons
Orthodox Lithuanians - 0 persons
Catholics of Belarusians - 270 785 persons
Lithuanian Catholics - 182 288 persons

--Лобачев Владимир (talk) 11:25, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Full name: The Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia

Sources in English that mention not only use, but that fact that there was a full official title as well:

it's proper title was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus' and Samogitia (source)

It was also included in the full name of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus and Samogitia) (source)

The proper title of Lithuania was in fact the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus and Samogitia and its rulers styled themselves Lethewindorum et Ruthenorum rex ('King of the Lithuanians and Ruthenians'). (source)

The Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia (the full official name of the state, further the GDL) (source)

the official name of which was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus' and Samogitia. (source)

The ancient Belarusian-Lithuanian state, the full name of which was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia. — Source: Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Encyclopedia in two volumes. Volume 1. - Minsk, 2007 - Page 5

Ruth. Великое князство Литовское, Руское, Жомойтское и иныхъ (Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia, Samogitia and other) — Source 1: Mykhailo Hrushevsky Miscellanea. Примітки до тексту Галицько-Волинської рукописї, с. 7, pdf p. 45 // Записки Наукового товариства імені Шевченка, том VIII, 1895, кн. 4. Львів, 1895. Source 2: Marian Gumowski. Pieczęcie książąt litewskich // Ateneum Wileńskie[pl]. Wilno, 1930. Rok VII. — Zeszyt 3–4. — s. 725

6.1.1 Cornerstones of Historical Developments.
The first noteworthy period of Belarusian history was in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries – a period that relates to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia, and Samogitia. This is also known as the Golden Age of Lithuanian and Old Belarusian culture. The Old Belarusian dialect not only served as the official language of the state, it was also the language of culture and education. Trade relations with the West brought the Lithuanian-Belarusian Grand Duchy into closer contact with the European humanist tradition of education. Following the division of the Polish-Lithuanian-Belarusian Republic in 1772–1795, the territory of Belarus fell under the power of the Russian Empire for the next 150 years. During this time, both the Belarusian language and culture (as was the case with Polish and Lithuanian) were prohibited. — Source: The Education Systems of Europe, p. 78

In the GDL at the end of the fourteenth century, only one out of nine people was of Lithuanian origin (O'Connor, 2003), i.e., almost all the rest were Ruthenians. At that time the word 'Russian' meant Ruthenian. But, the official language of the GDL was Old Belarusian. Starting from the early fourteenth century, the full name of GDL was The Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia, the last a region in northwestern Lithuania. — Source: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1970&context=ccr Evidence for Belarusian-Ukrainian Eastern Slavic Civilization]

The name of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia (the full official name) appears in three variants in its most popular abbreviated form - the GDL (known in contemporary Latin, Polish and Ruthenian sources as MDL, W.X.L or ВКЛ) — Source: In the Shadows of Poland and Russia: The Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Sweden in the European Crisis of the Mid-17th Century, Stockholm University, 2006, p. 4.

--Лобачев Владимир (talk) 13:39, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Bogurodzica (Q890692)

Bogurodzica (Q890692) There is a version in Old Polish and there is a version in Ruthenian (Old Belarusian).

The words of the Lithuanian (Belarusian) version of the song are recorded in the Statute of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania of 1529 in a mixed Church Slavonic-Ruthenian language. "Bogurodzica" played the role - in modern terms - of the national anthem. It was performed before battles by the troops of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, at ceremonies and festivities, at funerals and during the consecration of Christian saints.

--Лобачев Владимир (talk) 17:20, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

File:COA Grand Duchy of Lithuania with crown.svg

This coat of arms is the author's version, not based on historical images. It cannot be used as the official coat of arms of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 12:09, 18 February 2022 (UTC)