Wikidata:Property proposal/Auction sale

Auction sale

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work

   Not done

Description	takes a date; used in combination with new qualifier for "Wikidata:Property proposal/Lot nr."; other possible qualifiers are: price, location, and possible new qualifier for purchaser. Auction sales are a significant event for artworks, generally occurring as part of a larger sale of goods by an art auction house
Represents	auction (Q177923)
Data type	Point in time
Domain	artworks
Allowed values	date
Allowed units	day or year
Example	Moorish Ronda, Andalucia (Q27211804) -> 10 November 2016
Planned use	adding to artworks that currently use significant event (P793) for this, with the caveat that a qualifier also be created for "Lot nr."

Motivation

Using significant event (P793) doesn't really cut it for artwork auction sales and we need some better way to include specific lot numbers instead of (mis)using the catalog code (P528) property for this, since not all auctions have catalogs. In this example case, an item should probably be created for the catalog so the catalog code can be used in the normal way. There are sometimes differences between a previously printed auction sales catalog and actual auction lot nrs. Sometimes items are added to or withdrawn from the auction at the last minute, but also sometimes there are just different numbers. Jane023 (talk) 14:38, 6 January 2018 (UTC) WikiProject sum of all paintings has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. Please also vote for Wikidata:Property proposal/Lot nr.. WikiProject sum of all paintings has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead..Jane023 (talk) 18:17, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Question Oppose I do not understand what problem you see with significant event (P793). --Marsupium (talk) 19:42, 6 January 2018 (UTC) PS: I see generality deplored below as an advantage, not a disadvantage. --Marsupium (talk) 20:00, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
• I would expect the information about who owns the artwork before and after an auction to be contained in owned by (P127) (with start/stop time) and not in a qualifer for property like the one that's proposed here.

In addition it would be great if you provide a full example with qualifiers of how you see the property to be used. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 14:04, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

I added the link to Wikidata:Property proposal/Lot nr. which is the only qualifier that would be specific to this property. The others are included as suggestions. I think "significant event" is too general a term for auction sale, and this could also be used for significant loans, thefts, restorations and so forth. Jane023 (talk) 20:06, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

•  Oppose I think that significant event (P793) works well, see Q1892745#P793 for example.--Jklamo (talk) 18:29, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

The point is that significant event is too general a term. People wishing to add auction data to paintings or other artworks will not think of adding "significant event". Also, most auction houses use the same basic metadata (lot number, date, price, location) which would make it sensible to have a separate property for this other than "significant event". Instead of adding more significant events, I wish to have a separate property. Jane023 (talk) 18:36, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

•  Oppose Same reason as that of Jklamo. John Samuel 18:45, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
•  Oppose No sufficient case (yet) made not to use significant event (P793) -- this is surely exactly the kind of thing it is for. Jheald (talk) 19:05, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

So you are opposed to the idea of a property for "lot nr."? If not, how do you propose to use the "lot nr." property if not with an accompanying auction sale property? Jane023 (talk) 19:41, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

@Jane023: Simply as a qualifier on the significant event (P793)auction (Q177923) statement. Why would that be a problem? Jheald (talk) 20:41, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Because I don't consider "lot nr" as a correct qualifier to the "significant event" property. Again there are too many significant events that can be applied to any number of P31 statements. I prefer to have a separate property for auction sale items (and would even prefer a separate property for fine art auction items - so no antique guns or cars for example) Jane023 (talk) 21:44, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

• @Jane023, Jheald, Jsamwrites, Marsupium, Jklamo: Not done, given that it founds a lot of opposition here. Use significant event for now. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 22:08, 31 January 2018 (UTC)