Wikidata:Property proposal/behavior specification

behavior / object specification

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Not done

Description	The specification of a certain behavior (example a ritual action) or object - usually as expressed in some reference.
Represents	specification (Q2101564)
Data type	Monolingual text
Domain	Q3769299, Q17553950
Example	chaula-saṃskāra (Q50300816) → "जन्मनोऽधि तृतीये वर्षे चौलं पुनर्वस्वोः ॥ आपस्तम्बगृह्यसूत्र १६.३ ॥ ब्राह्मणानां भोजनमुपायनवत्॥ (ब्राह्मणभोजनादीति ब्राह्मणान् भोजयित्वाऽशिषो वाचयित्वा कुमारं भोजयित्वेत्येतावदिह द्रष्टव्यम् ।) सीमन्तवदग्नेरुपसमाधानादि ॥ (पूर्वेद्युर्नान्दीश्राद्धम्। सकृत्पात्राणि, शलल्यादिभिस्सह शम्याः ।) केशान् विनीय यथर्षि शिखा निदधाति ॥ यथा वैषां कुलधर्मः स्यात् ॥ (केचिदेषामिति वचनात्पितुरन्योऽपि चौलकर्तेति ॥) उपनयनवद् दिग्वपनादि- अपां संसर्जनाद्याकेशनिधानात्समानम् ॥ आपस्तम्बगृह्यसूत्र १६.८ ॥ क्षुरं प्रक्षाल्य निदधाति ॥ तेन त्र्यहं कर्मनिवृत्तिः ॥ वरं ददाति ॥ गौर्वै वरऽइत्त्युक्तम् ॥… संवत्सरं गोदानव्रतमे (मित्ये) क उपदिशन्ति ॥ आपस्तम्बगृह्यसूत्र १६.१४ ॥ (= ब्रह्मचर्यम्, विवरणानि गोदानव्रते ऽधः।) … अथापि ब्राह्मणं रिक्तो वा एषोऽनपिहितो यन्मुण्डस्तस्यैतदपिधानं यच्छिखेति ८ " with reference Apastamba-gṛhyasūtra (Q50301063) Pledge of Allegiance (Q50324002) → "The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”, should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute." with reference United States Flag Code (Q286608)
Planned use	Specifications for various hindu ritual actions and implements, referring to core hindu ritual manuals.
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)

Motivation

Many hindu rituals and ritual objects are specified in great detail in classical ritual manuals (in the order of decreasing authoritativeness: brAhmaNa texts in the veda-s, kalpa-sUtra-s, smriti-s, purANa-s, itihAsa-s and nirNaya/ decision texts). Any well performed ritual action should (to the maximum possible extant) not violate the rules specified by such authorities and observations of well regarded contemporary masters. Any dispute about rituals refer back to quotes from these. There can be a wide variety of specifications for the same ritual action depending on tradition, the performer and the circumstances (example: AshvalAyana sUtra vs Apastamba sUtra). We were casting about in our attempt to build a great hindu ritual database for use by us practitioners as well as curious outsiders, till I stumbled upon wikidata, which seems perfect. All this is more broadly applicable to human behavior and objects in general. (Hindu manuals for example specify rules about diet, daily routine, clothing etc.. - and so would George Washington!)

Think of it as similar to defining formula (P2534) for math and science. Structurally, it would be analogous to quotation (P1683) Vishvas vasuki ( talk) 01:48, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Support David (talk) 15:38, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
•  Support This sounds interesting; as you indicate there could be uses outside of Hindu tradition, can you add an example along those lines? Perhaps something related to United States Flag Code (Q286608)? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:03, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

‌ Thanks - I have added an example along the suggested lines. Vishvas vasuki (talk) 23:11, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

•  Comment This does not seem to be structured data. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:02, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

‌ Google translation of the text in the first example:

chaula-saṃskāra (Q50300816) → "Birth anniversary of thirty-three years of rehabilitation: Apestibhuriyasutra 16.3. Brahmin food for lunch. (Brahmin feast, Brahmanan, Bhojayitavashosha, Rayaayat, Bhojayvatyattevadhi, Vedi Vaishtham).

Marginal (Eastern India), Shishya Niddhati, Shalayadatriya, Shalayadhi Vishu, Shamya. As mentioned in the totality: (Kachdejayamititi vachataturaniyopi Chaulkarti.) Upanavad Digvapnadi - Upa Sansarajnadayadhananathasamamanam Apartha Gharayasutra 16.8 Axis screen therapy Very trivial evolution But dadati Gauravai Vyatyuktam ... Siddhasaran Gondavanvartme (Matteya) 's Subjectivity. Apestibhuri Sutra 16.14 (= Brahmacharyam, description, description): ... "Brahmacharya" or "Ego"

-- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:02, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

You mean that the "monoligual text" value is unstructured? If so, I agree - as are many other values (such as a mathematical or chemical formula). However, at a higher level, such unstructured values can be used to enrich structure of items via statements - just as we observe in the case of defining formula (P2534). PS: Google translate cannot translate sanskrit, and hence produces garbage - so I removed the confusing text that was added to the proposal above. Vishvas विश्वासः (talk) 15:14, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing, Vishvas vasuki: I suppose there could be other ways of structuring this. For example, a sitelink to a wikiquote entry for the source of the regulation/specification? But I think this is clearer - unless we create a separate item for the quoted regulation perhaps? What do you have in mind? ArthurPSmith (talk) 16:13, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes - we should consider all ways of expressing this "specification" relationship, and choose the best. For the present, if I understand you correctly, you propose replacing the "monolingual text" datatype in the proposal with a "URL" datatype to hold the wikiquote link (while retaining other parts of the proposal as before). I see the following problems with this approach which make me prefer the existing proposal:

• It is more cumbersome for humans (having to create a wikisource page first before linking it). Machines should be able to automatically copy quoted text from wikidata to the appropriate wikisource en-masse, if that is desired.
• Such a requirement (that one should link to a wikiquote page rather than directly excerpt) would obviate the very existence of the "monolingual text" datatype, and the structure of many other similar properties (such as quotation (P1683)).

    Vishvas विश्वासः (talk) 18:23, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

•  Oppose Wikidata is not suitable for storing long unstructured text. Micru (talk) 11:10, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Behavior specification need not be "long". Vishvas विश्वासः (talk) 19:36, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

•  Oppose, per Micru. Storing source texts is outside of Wikidata's scope. --Yair rand (talk) 19:40, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

We don't propose storing source texts. We just propose storing quotes from source texts (which can already be done in a different context with Property:P1683!). Hence the objection is misplaced. Vishvas विश्वासः (talk) 03:17, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

•  Oppose per my comment above. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:00, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
•  Oppose per comments above: unstructured text. Regards, Ivanhercaz (Talk) 20:25, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

•  Not done no consensus for creation with proposed datatype.
  --- Jura 12:57, 12 June 2018 (UTC)