Wikidata:Property proposal/title of chess player

title of chess player

   Done: title of chess person (P2962) (Talk and documentation)

Description	property for the title of chess players
Data type	Item
Template parameter	"title" in en:Template:infobox chess biography, "titel" in de:Vorlage:Infobox_Schachspieler, "titre" in fr:Modèle:Infobox_Joueur_d'échecs, "Cím" in hu:Sablon:Sakkozó infobox etc.
Domain	human (Q5) (with occupation (P106) chess player (Q10873124)
Allowed values	Grandmaster (Q105269), International Master (Q752119), FIDE Master (Q1049520), FIDE Master (Q1049520), National Master (NM), Candidate Master (CM), Woman Grandmaster (WGM), Woman International Master (WIM), Woman FIDE Master (WFM), Woman Candidate Master (WCM), International Correspondence Chess Grandmaster (Q3818700), Grandmaster of the Chess Compositions, International Solving Grandmaster, and the special national chess titles of the individual federations (see: en:Chess_title)
Example	Magnus Carlsen (Q106807) -> Grandmaster (Q105269) Hans Berliner (Q1578694) -> International Correspondence Chess Grandmaster (Q3818700)
Source	en:Chess_title, FIDE Handbook
Proposed by	--Dodi123 (talk) 14:23, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Motivation

Because the title (GM, IM, FM, WGM, WIM, WFM etc.) is NOT AN AWARD (award received (P166)) for the chess players. There are their TITLES. An award for a chess players is for example the Chess Oscar (Q752000) prize.

Discussion

•  Oppose award received seems fine. --Izno (talk) 15:00, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

 Comment Please read the wikidata page of Magnus Carlsen (Q106807). He has many awards: four Chess Oscar (Q752000), the Aftenposten Gold Medal (Q388826), Norwegian Sportsperson of the Year (Q1859368), the Peer Gynt Literary Award (Q1780561). These are really awards for him. The rank (title) of chess player is an other thing, there is same as dan/kyu rank (P468) for asian sports. If you read wikidata page of Hironori Ōtsuka (Q386415), he has awards: award received (P166) Order of the Rising Sun (Q818600) and he has dan/kyu rank (P468) 10 dan karate master. --Dodi123 (talk) 17:29, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

•  Info A chess puzzle solver is not a chess player, so for solving grandmaster, this property would not be suitable. Same for chess puzzle composers. 85.216.91.92 17:58, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
  • "Just as in over-the-board play, in problem chess the titles International Grandmaster, International Master and FIDE Master are awarded by FIDE via the PCCC (Permanent Commission for Chess Composition) for especially distinguished problem and study composers and solvers" (see: en:Chess_title#Problem_chess). en:FIDE is the World CHESS Federation. --Dodi123 (talk) 18:11, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
    • Yes, but then the property should be named title of chess person, not "player". A composer is not a player. 2A00:1398:9:FB00:F125:7AF5:8A19:8547 08:56, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
•  Info There was a short discussion at Wikidata:Forum#Vandalismus preceeding this property proposal (mostly in English). Property proposal was one of the three discussed solutions, and to me it appears to be the best option based on what Dodi123 told about chess player titles. It might be worth to broaden the scope of this proposed property to all board games which have grandmaster titles (I'm not an expert in this field, so no idea whether this would be important). —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:06, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
•  Support, ergo would suggest creating a bigger property - sports title. For example, a lot of Soviet sportsmen need it. Yelena Donskaya (Q23695237) -> Merited Master of Sports of the USSR (Q9387384). --Lingveno (talk) 04:44, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Honored Master is more an Award than a title. 2A00:1398:9:FB00:F125:7AF5:8A19:8547 09:18, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
    • It is not an award at all... --Lingveno (talk) 13:56, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
      • What is it then? 85.216.91.92 17:40, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
•  Comment for some other activities, there is dan/kyu rank (P468).
  --- Jura 09:12, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
  • Jura1, that does not fit. In Commonwealth of Independent States (Q7779) totally different title system for sportsmen is used. --Lingveno (talk) 13:11, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
  • No doubt, at least it illustrates that not all use P166.
    --- Jura 06:55, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
•  Support and actually I would suggest to broaden this property to honorific titles given to persons in general. --Srittau (talk) 23:21, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
•  Oppose. Use award received (P166). Per en:Grandmaster (chess), "The title Grandmaster is awarded to chess players" (emphasis added). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:10, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
•  Support Dodi123 is correct: It's a title, not an award. Grandmasters, International Masters etc. are commonly referred to as "titled players" in chess. Stefan64 (talk) 22:26, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
•  Support Perfectly correct: "The title Grandmaster is awarded to chess players" (emphasis added). --Toni am See (talk) 05:18, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
  • The fact that a tile, and not, say, a medal or a vase, is awarded, is irrelevant, and objection on such grounds is hair-splitting. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:37, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
    • You're talking nonsense. A PhD is also awarded, but that does not make it an award. Stefan64 (talk) 13:05, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
      • Actually, it is: "A Doctor of Philosophy (PhD or DPhil) is a type of doctorate degree awarded by universities in many countries." Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:20, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
        • Try to move en:Doctor (title) to en:Doctor (award) with this crappy reasoning. You will be blocked in no time. Stefan64 (talk) 20:40, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
          • Could you please cut out the aggressive, borderline abusive, language? The article to which you refer includes links to List of doctoral degrees awarded by country, and includes the word "award", "awardee", "awards" & "awarded", no less than twenty times. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:00, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
            • You are quite obviously clueless on the subject in question, several people have told you so. It's time to accept that. Stefan64 (talk) 21:42, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
              • "Could you please cut out the aggressive, borderline abusive, language?" I did not mean simply by dropping "borderline". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:21, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
                • I'm calling a spade a spade. You don't understand the difference between a title and an award, and keep insisting after it has been explaned to you repeatedly. Maybe you think that you are a very important guy here, because you've had some wiki jobs and Jimbo has heard your name before. No chance to impress me with that. Stefan64 (talk) 11:54, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
•  Support It is indeed a title for life, not an award. --Gereon K. (talk) 13:20, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
•  Support The official regulations are the FIDE Title regulations. In this regulations, the term "Award" ist not used at all. Especially relevant is §0.1: "Only the titles as in 0.3 are acknowledged by FIDE." 129.13.72.198 08:12, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
  • Not so. Note the subheading of section 0.6, which is "The Award of Titles". The preceding section says "such titles are awarded automatically by FIDE." The word is used, in one form or another, at least 11 times. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:25, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
    • the use of award as a verb does not imply that the object of the verb is always an award as a noun. Please at least acknowledge that two different parts of speech are involved here. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:57, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
      • Correct. One can award nobel prizes, medals, or titles. An in this case, it's the letter one - titles. 88.64.181.136 19:02, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

@Dodi123, Lingveno, Srittau, Stefan64, Toni am See, Gereon K.:  Done Clear majority support. Now property title of chess person (P2962). Lymantria (talk) 15:26, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

This is no supposed to be a vote. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:34, 13 July 2016 (UTC)