Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2016/09

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Deletion/protection of spam data pages

I flagged Q26707877 for deletion on the grounds that it was created by a sockpuppeting self-promoter who pops up regularly on the English and Russian Wikipedia projects, and so met the "Items which do not meet Wikidata's notability policy can be deleted" of WD:RFD. This was put on hold because some of the spammer's current articles are still being CfD'd or having their speedy templates edit-warred. When I pointed out that English Wikipedia AfDs had clearly established the subject as non-notable, User:Lymantria remarked that it "would be utterly easy to recreate an item with these sitelinks, since our notability criteria state that an item with one valid sitelink is notable".

Talk page discussion with that user suggested that Wikidata possibly made no judgment beyond that - if an article or category about somebody exists somewhere in the wikiverse (even for ten seconds) then you can create a corresponding Wikidata page, and someone will have to notice and request deletion to get rid of it. Is this correct, and should that change? Or is a Wikidata page considered to be such a negligible piece of internet real estate that if a spammer wants one, it doesn't really matter? --McGeddon (talk) 12:51, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

The idea of Wikidata notability isn't about protecting real estate. It's about preventing false information from hitting Wikidata. The claim about his birthday and about where he was born is likely true and not false PR information.

There's a claim that he's the co-owner of Lovifm.com in the description. He owns the domain according to https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=lovifm.com . Icann is a serious public source and thus he might even be notable without having page elsewhere in the wikiverse. It's potentially useful information for someone who wants to know about bloggers in Belarus.

On Wikipedia he can write stuff "Award : One of the best music reviewer". There an interst to remove that as spam. Given the way Wikidata is structured that's not information he put into Wikidata, so it's less urgent to spend resources on fighting contributions like that and having policies to prevent entries like the one that is in Wikidata. ChristianKl (talk) 13:25, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Ah, got it, looks like I misread Wikidata's notability policy, I didn't realise the bar was quite as low as "person is confirmed to exist". Thanks for the explanation. --McGeddon (talk) 13:56, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

It's person's can be described by reliable sources. There might be many people for whom exist but for who can only be described based on personal accounts. The notability policy exists to prevent information that can't be checked to be true. It doesn't exist to judge importance of a person.

Knowing about multiple people who are named the same way helps a tool like the Primary sources tool to know which person is meant when it uses machine learning to understand a text. Especially if they live in different countries.ChristianKl (talk) 14:08, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

qualifies for event (P3085)

Hello. Can anyone tell me what it the most useful way to use qualifies for event (P3085);

⟨ 1962–63 Cypriot First Division (Q2635672)  

 ⟩ qualifies for event (P3085) ⟨ 1963–64 European Cup (Q500084)  

 ⟩
winner (P1346) ⟨ Anorthosis Famagusta FC (Q141688)  

 ⟩

or

⟨ 1962–63 Cypriot First Division (Q2635672)  

 ⟩ participating team (P1923) ⟨ Anorthosis Famagusta FC (Q141688)  

 ⟩
qualifies for event (P3085) ⟨ 1963–64 European Cup (Q500084)  

 ⟩

Xaris333 (talk) 18:35, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

The first way is the intended way. Thierry Caro (talk) 22:45, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

But winner (P1346) is already using to show the winner team of the league. Maybe we need a different qualifier. Xaris333 (talk) 23:10, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Why can't I ping Wikiproject Geology?

For a potential redefinition of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P974 I want to ping Wikiproject Geology.

Notified participants of WikiProject Geology doesn't seem to work. Why not? ChristianKl (talk) 20:50, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

I think Wikidata:WikiProject Geology/Participants is needed. --Succu (talk) 21:45, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't seem to work and also it would be strange given that WikiProject Medicine is called via 'Medicine'. ChristianKl (talk) 22:52, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Please read documentation at Template:Ping project. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 11:37, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Video game developer

video game developer (Q210167) should be split in a item for the profession and a item for the type of company to improve queries that look for occupation (P106) being added as instance of (P31). Can someone help? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 14:55, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Meanwhile, here is a list of possible wrong P31's. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 15:44, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Contribute to set a data quality framework for Wikidata

Dear Wikidata members, We are working on setting a data quality framework for Wikidata, as part of a research project carried out by members of the Web and Internet Science group of the University of Southampton.

Determining the quality of Wikidata is crucial for its future development. We believe that its community should have a primary role in defining what data quality means in Wikidata. Therefore, we would like to ask community members to contribute to our data quality framework draft by adding comments, suggestions, and concrete example of quality issues on Wikidata.

The draft has been published as a Request for Comment and can be found at this address: Data quality framework for Wikidata
Many thanks,
--Alessandro Piscopo (talk) 08:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey :) Just for everyone's info: Alessandro has been working with us in the office for the past 2 weeks and it'd be great if you could support him in his work. I believe it will be valuable for Wikidata. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 16:02, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@Alessandro Piscopo: What about bringing quality statements (like the 1.0 classification) to Wikidata? Because they are language-specific they could be done as badges.--Kopiersperre (talk) 19:00, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

That would definitely be interesting. We should agree first what we mean with "quality" though. --Alessandro Piscopo (talk) 08:12, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

quality is in linking wiki links with wikidata statements

Hoi, attention to quality is good but I think the basics of what is perceived quality is in the occurrence of statements that describe links to other articles in Wikipedia. This allows for article level activitiy and work done in any language maps to work in all other languages. When we focus on what Wikidata is supposed to do in this way, most other quality considerations have a framework; the use that brings to being the data storage for Wikimedia projects. PS I blogged about this and welcome any arguments. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 12:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

@GerardM: interesting point of view. My doubt is: if Wikidata's quality should be considered in relation to what it can contribute to Wikipedia, don't you think that it may be limiting for the project? I think Wikidata might have much broader application that the mere support of Wikipedia. --Alessandro Piscopo (talk) 08:12, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

I see no reason why Wikidata should limit itself to being data storage for Wikipedia. If we have a recently discussed data set like >300.000 National Heritage buildings in the UK, most of that data isn't interesting for Wikipedia. On the other hand Wikidata works on integrating itself with OpenStreetMap and the from that point it can be quite useful.

There are also instances when Wikidata can be directly valuable. I use it for example as a multilingual dictionary for anatomy when I create my Anki cards.

I don't think that it's useful to think in terms of articles when looking at Wikidata. If an item has three links it might not be complex enough to make an article but those three links can still be very valuable to understand the structure of the underlying subject. ChristianKl (talk) 12:00, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

You forget the point to Wikidata. Yes, it can be more but the basics is that it supports Wikipedia and other projects. When it can bring substantial improvement in quality, both Wikidata and all the Wikipedias will benefit. This brings a practical and easily implementable difference that can be measured. It will brings us more contributors and this is imho more relevant than including external stuff. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 13:42, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia is certainly an important stakeholder but it's not the only stateholder that matters. Getting GLMA's (Galleries, Libraries, Archives, and Museums) to release their data is for example also very important project.

There are also various consumers of structured data besides Wikipedia. ChristianKl (talk) 15:48, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Please explain how this relates to the point made. When Wikidata quality improves for Wikipedia, how does that not benefit other stakeholders and when quality cannot improve because of these "stakeholders", what is their stake and why should we care? Thanks, GerardM (talk) 11:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Risperidone versus placebo for schizophrenia

For whatever reason some people have added substances as a "medicine" to Wikidata. They have added substances that are in a database of approved substances into Wikidata and it gives these substances some legitimacy. Risperidone versus placebo for schizophrenia is a Cochrane publication that throws a lot of cold water on one of these substances.

The questions I pose are:

Should we include substances registered as a medicine? The point being is that is proves little about efficacy even when compared to a placebo. For this substance Cochrane says: "The margin of improvement chosen by the researchers as their outcome may not be clinically meaningful."
When we do, how do we link to relevant literature. It is NOT a reference because the fact that it IS registered is all the current reference says . Cochrane provides the information about efficacy and that is utterly relevant and different.

My proposal is to remove all substances that are marked as medicinal. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 06:59, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

I would oppose wholesale removal. If something is registered as a medicine we should, per NPOV, record that it is so registered regardless of any disputes about whether it should be. We have statement disputed by (P1310) which could probably be used to indicate that someone disputes that it is effective (perhaps as a qualifier to has use (P366)?). Thryduulf (talk) 08:46, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

When a substance is harmful and we state that it is a medicine, we take on a responsibility. This is why we are careful with living people as well. NPOV is of a lesser relevance than the harm that it does.

The US airforce shut down on of their own helicopters in Iraq partly because the US airforce doesn't consider helicopters to be aircraft. If someone takes Risperidone and dies to side effects that aren't responded to because you said that Risperidone isn't a drug, that's great harm to living people. ChristianKl (talk) 10:19, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

On it.wiki we use a disclaimer int the page about medicine. More or less: « The information is not medical advice and may not be accurate. The contents are only for illustrative purposes and do not replace medical advice » with a link to Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer (Q10640396)--ValterVB (talk) 10:43, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Could you give an example of the items that you are talking about? ChristianKl (talk) 09:27, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Read the title of this post and read the associated article at Cochrane. NB this is just a random substance. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 09:49, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

The word Medicine doesn't appear on risperidone (Q412443). What appears is medication (Q12140) which is about whether a substance is intended to be used to cure but which isn't related to whether the substance cures in practice. ChristianKl (talk) 10:07, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

This substance does not cure. Not at all, there is no claim to that effect. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 11:06, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

There's an FDA approval for the drug for a certain usage. As such it's used by some doctors with the intent to cure. The fact that it might not actually cure patients doesn't imply that no doctor uses it for that intent. ChristianKl (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

We do not need to controversial data from other sources. You again use the word "cure" many FDA approved substances do not cure at all and, this is not what FDA approval means. My point is that we can link to other sources but we do not have to include their controversial data. It is controversial because scientific evidence points to the fact that its use is in doubt or that there is no evidence at all. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 07:43, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Before a big discussion that may point nowhere if we do not do that, I'd like that we put some points straight, like "what exactly is a medicine". We have to get our definition straight before any discussion on such a subject. author TomT0m / talk page 09:31, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Really? A medicine is a substance prescribed by a doctor for medicinal purposes. So when a doctor prescribes substances banned in another country as a drug, it is still a medicine per the definiton. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 09:52, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

In that case it doesn't matter whether Cochrane says it's effective. The fact that Cochrane speaks about in the first place is indication that some doctor somewhere uses it for medical purposes. Cochrane also explicitely calls it a drug "Risperidone is one among the atypical or new generation of drugs. "ChristianKl (talk) 10:10, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

The question is should we have such information and when we do, how do we signal prominently that the efficacy of a drug is very much in doubt. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 11:20, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Having good information about substances is valuable to a varity of bioinformatics applications. Data about whether a substance is a pharmaceutical drug is useful data. Having data about the conditions for which a drug is used is useful.

Currently it seems like we don't have a Wikidata property that speaks about clinical effectiveness. It would be useful to have such a property but as far as I see there's currently no large database about clinical effectiveness that we could import. That problem isn't easily solvable. It might be solvable in a few years if Cochrane provides their data in a form that can be easily imported.

The data that's currently listed at "medical condition treated" seems to be based on the drug having successfully passed clinical trials. It's data from ChEMBL that has a property for "Max phase for indication". That property could be translated into a qualifier for Wikidata.

Apart from that the definition for both "medical condition treated" and "pharmaceutical drug" could be edited to explicitly say that they aren't making statements about clinical effectiveness. ChristianKl (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

@GerardM: Yes, really. Don't forget that we are in a concept based and multilingual environment, it's crutial that everything agrees on what is going on and what the definitions of the concept we use are. Take en:Medicine for example, this word includes a lot more than just active substances. Is a cure a medicine ? I'd get yes. Do we are actually speaking of "medicinal substances", "active molecule" ? Do you say a "medicine" is a prescription, in general, like "do run one hour a day" "take this kind of pills - a set of action a doctor makes to makes you better ? author TomT0m / talk page 12:09, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

You then get to a situation where you mistake "active molecule" for a medicine and that is also problematic. Typically people expect that a doctor prescribes substances that are beneficial. When it is scientifically in doubt that they are, it should not be prescribed, it should not be a medicine and we should be careful what we say on matters that make people worse of. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 16:05, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Sorry but you're not really answering. I'm asking definition just to be sure we're all on the same page, not to be lectured about what should or should not be prescribed . So we need definitions, and preferably scientific one, you're probably right on this, on sorting out all those concepts. author TomT0m / talk page 16:10, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Don't forget also that the effectiveness of a treatment may change over time, as does what is prescribed for a given condition (the two are not always directly related) and we need to be able to record both currently used medicines and those that were previously used but no longer are. Also, what counts as a "medicine" and what substances may or may not be prescribed also vary temporally and geographically - e.g. it became legal to prescribe medical cannabis (Q1033379) in Colorado (Q1261) only in 2000, it remains illegal in Utah (Q829). Thryduulf (talk) 20:11, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Party of NPOV means that Wikidata's role isn't to say what people should do or shouldn't do. You might think that it's good that people do what you think they should do and you might even right but it's still Wikidata policy to not take side in a dispute.

In this case we have academic databanks like drugbank (University of Alberta), ChEMBL (European Molecular Biology Laboratory) and ::::: NDF-RT (Department of Veterans Affairs) who all use the term "drug" in a way where whether or not a drug is effective is not important for whether something is a drug.

Doctors expect to be told certain things when they ask a patient whether the patients takes any drugs regularly. Medicine has a culture where a doctor prefers to have more information rather than less. Telling patients that certain substances aren't drugs and thus don't have to be listed when the patient is queried for drugs is actively harmful. In general substances that are intended to treat a disease count here and it doesn't matter whether they actually are effective. A doctor wants to know when his patients take homeopathic drugs even when they don't believe that the drug does something on it's own. It provides information about a patient actually thinking they have an issue that warrants a drug. There can also be placebo effects that are useful to know for a doctor.ChristianKl (talk) 18:38, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

When a scientific study finds that the positive effects of a substance are similar to a placebo and the negative effects are not considered, then there is nothing NPOV in it. When it is "harmful" for the patients to know about this, you actively subscribe to the notion that people may be poisoned as long as they do not know it for as long as there is a benefit somewhere. I do not understand how we justify the inclusion of data where the British Medical Journal says that only 12% of the 2500 most subscribed substances have a positive effect. In my opinion the continued spread of information about such substances is effectively a conflict of interest. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 11:52, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

It is not our job to determine which information to spread about a substance - we report all the information available in reliable sources. If a substance is classified as a medicine by $body then we report that the substance is a medicine according to $body. If $other_body classifies it as ineffective then we also report that it is regarded as ineffective by $other_body. We do not make value judgements about who is correct or what people "should" know. Thryduulf (talk) 15:25, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not really happy with the status quo where for a pair like Provigal (brand name) and Modafinil (substance name) both are mixed up in the same item. I think it might be worth renaming medication (Q12140) into "pharmaceutical substance" and using "pharmaceutical drug" as a label for items like Provigal that have a specific company that manufactures them. ChristianKl (talk) 10:13, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

One problem for the "brand name" is then that one single product can have several names in different parts of the world. Fluoxetin was not marketed here before it became controversial, why it was here sold under the brand name Fontex, instead of the more globally well known Prozac. But it is exactly the same pill, made by Eli Lilly and everything. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 15:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

How to mark former consulates?

How can I express that The Old Consulate, Calabar (Q26235311) is no longer a consulate? By the way, I can't find when it ceased to be a consulate, and as I edit many such items I am sure there will be cases when the year is actually unknown.

Australian Consulate in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic (Q23892004) solves the problem by having a end time (P582) of "unknown value", but I can't seem to achieve that. How to do? Or is there a better solution?

Related: How should my app (which shows your nearest consulate) filter out former consulates? Syced (talk) 03:38, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

To enter an "unknown value", click on the three rectangles to left of the data entry box (after you've added the property end time (P582)), and select "unknown value" from the list displayed.

I'm not sure if this is the best way of doing this. One possibility would be to create an new item "defunct consulate", and use that (this would at least solve your app query). There may be better ways, but I'm not sure what they would be... Robevans123 (talk) 06:53, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

I would go with qualifier end time (P582). In the app query you can then filter out all claims which have this qualifier set. Classes like "defunct consulate" have several disadvantages [1]. --Pasleim (talk) 07:42, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_International_relations suggests that dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) is better than end time (P582). Robevans123 wrote how you get the "unknown value". I many cases I would also expect that it's possible to know the century in which the consulate disolved. In this case it seems to be the 20th century so I put in 1950 with century precision.

For the App it's best to see whether dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) or end time (P582) exist. dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) is a subclass of end time (P582), so you can yourself decide how strict you want to be.

It might also make a lot of sense to switch The Old Consulate, Calabar (Q26235311) to be about the buliding and create a separate item for the consultate as a consultate. The building which has the national heritage status should have as occupant (P466) the item of the consulate. The consultate then should have location (P276) the building.ChristianKl (talk) 11:01, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

It seems that in this field, buildings frequently get confused with the function.
--- Jura 11:28, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

It seems like it's useful for Syced's tourism app to be able to distinguish between a world heritage building not being disolved and thus maybe worthy of being visited by tourists and the consulate being dissolved. ChristianKl (talk) 12:27, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Interesting article here. It was prefabricated in the UK and shipped out to Calabar in 1884. It seems to have stopped being a consulate when the Brits moved out in 1960, and immediately became a national monument, and then a museum in 1986. Doesn't help with the other consulates, but interesting for this one. Robevans123 (talk) 13:57, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

ChristianKl: Although I indeed also maintain a tourism app, this one must only show functional consulates that are actually providing diplomatic/visa services. By the way, all of my apps are open source :-) Syced (talk) 01:15, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

I think this a a good example of practical needs for data quality that are about data structured in a way that isn't important for Wikimedia projects @Alessandro_Piscopo, GerardM:. For the Wikimedia project it's no problem if the building and the consulate as organisation are the same item. For this usecase it's a problem. Wikidata profits from being able to used in a wide variety of ways and usages like this here provide an incentive of cleaning up a specific part of Wikidata. ChristianKl (talk) 09:44, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

That's quite interesting, thanks for pointing me this --Alessandro Piscopo (talk) 23:41, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

It seems to me this is a museum, not a former consulate. By the way, this item show that we have a problem showing the history of things, for example, for houses which were used in a different way years ago. I remember that I had added to a medieval tower lots of different P31 + values + qualifiers, which were deleted some time ago. This tower was some time ago for example a prison and it is now a restaurant. Just saying, this medieval tower is a restaurant, doesn´t seem right to me. --Molarus 11:26, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

P31 is labeled "instance of", actually that means "is instance of". Why not creating "was instance of"? Then I could say: <Q26235311> <was instance of> <consulate>, <start time> <1884> <end time> <1960> --Molarus 15:02, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

This topic has raised a number of interesting questions on how best to describes buildings, their functions, and how these can vary over time, and how people (and apps) might want to find and use the data.

For example, a church may still be active and available as a place of worship. But a different church could have been abandoned/disused/deconsecrated/in ruins/demolished/converted to another use/given legal protection for architectural interest/be a tourist attraction, and so on. From the point of view of an app that is trying to show nearby places of worship then it is important to know whether the church is active. From the point of view of an app that is concerned with places of architectural interest, the religious status is less important, but it is more important to know if the building still exists/whether or not it can be visited/what legal protection is in place, and so on.

It seems to me that it would be useful to set up a discussion/Wikidata project to look at a number of buildings (10-20?) that have a rich and varied past (and are reasonably well documented on a wiki somewhere), and try to work out how best to model the data for these buildings (using existing and/or new properties), so that the data is readily available to a variety of readers/apps. Hopefully, we can produce some guidelines that would be useful in modelling the data for most, if not all buildings. Robevans123 (talk) 12:43, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata Path status update

Hi people, like you might know, I'm in the middle of the project of implementing an equivalent of SPARQL property paths for Wikidata data model in lua - that is, mainly extended to support qualified statement. I choose to use the ">" symbol to express that we want the qualifiers values of a statement, for example the path union of>of - we can use the english labels of properties to write paths - will express the values of the "of" qualifier of an "union of" statement.

It's almost functional, except I feel harder to find motivation to finish it after a couple of month developping it, so I feel the need to show something to community :)

The template {{Show Path Items}} shows examples of Wikidata Paths and the result of some queries, computed through the lua API. The are because something is still developped or broken in current development state and might be not errors very soon, especially if you like this :)

@Izno, Zolo:

author TomT0m / talk page 14:14, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

@TomT0m: not 100% working, but pretty nice :) --Zolo (talk) 15:24, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Update 2: made progress on the star/plus operators front this afternoon :

22 resutles, which matches

select (count(?child) as ?num) where {
  wd:Q1339 wdt:P40+ ?child .
}

Try it!

author TomT0m / talk page 15:13, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

20 million

Wikidata now has over 20 million items. Harej (talk) 22:59, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the number on the main page seems to be wrong. I'm quite convinced we are already at 108532342 items. --Pasleim (talk) 08:10, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

The main page is using MediaWiki's parser function {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}, which results in the same as shown on Special:Statistics (which is still increasing, so not just outdated). I take it this documents how your bot counts. Any idea how this is different from the parser function? You got a database from future? :-D --Nenntmichruhigip (talk) 11:51, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} hasn't counted stubs till now. From tomorrow on this should change, see phab:T144687. Thanks User:dcljr for finding the cause. --Pasleim (talk) 12:30, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Yea, thanks to you two and to Urbanecm (not wanting to waste his time by pinging, just in case he reads this here anyway) for doing the change :-) --Nenntmichruhigip (talk) 17:30, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Allowing Wikipedia's to make a choice to only import statements with non-Wikipedia references

As far as I understand many Wikipedia's decide against important data from Wikidata because too much data in Wikidata is without references. Have we considered a setting whereby a template that automatically imports data can choose to only import data when there's a non-Wikipedia reference for a claim? ChristianKl (talk) 19:25, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

English Wikipedia has worked on a concept for that. --Izno (talk) 19:47, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

The best solution was to remove all Wikipedia references. I always do so whenever I happen to edit a statement. -- JakobVoss (talk) 13:16, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

en:Module:WikidataIB: function getSourcedValue, if anyone's interested. --RexxS (talk) 18:27, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

A lot of work has been done by the DBpedia folks to establish a link between a source and a wiki link. This often translates in a statement. So the question is do we dare to use quality data from elsewhere? It is after all the sources as used by Wikipedia.. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 16:06, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand GerardM's comment. My view is that if an editor didn't read a reliable source him/herself, or if writing a bot to import from a reliable database, verify that the bot is correctly importing from the bot, and that the meaning of the imported item is the same as the meaning in Wikidata, then there is no reliable source and the purported reference is a false attribution. An example of care with bot imports would be a database that contains a mixture of Julian calendar dates and Gregorian calendar dates, with no flag to tell which is which. Since Wikidata demands that a calendar be assigned, automated imports from such a database would be invalid unless suitable filters were in place.

And of course, none of the Wikipedias, in whichever language, are reliable sources. Jc3s5h (talk) 16:30, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

The point of Wikipedia is that it has many sources associated with facts stated in sentences. These sources can be linked to the sources and the wiki links who are often also known as statements in Wikidata. When an "editor" reads the statement and the sentence, he or she can determine that they are about the same thing. That is quite clever as it associates a source outside of WMF with a statement. There are many quality control measures possible once you have such links registered. The issue of quality is that it is more of a process and less of a product. This makes quality something where Wikipedia and Wikidata can strengthen each others quality. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 17:50, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Certainly the in-text citation in Wikipedia that supports a certain statement would make it much easier for an editor who intends to repeat that statement elsewhere, such as an academic paper, a Wikidata item, or a Wikipedia article in a different language. But since Wikipedia is not a reliable source, the editor who wants to reuse the statement doesn't know if the purported source really exists, or really supports the statement in the Wikipedia article. So until the editor reads the source to see what it says, the editor should not reuse the statement in any arena where reliable sources are expected. Jc3s5h (talk) 18:00, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

You see quality as a product not as a process. For me quality starts with the association of a source with a statement of fact in a text or elsewhere You never know how long a source will be available, you will not know the quality of the source but it is something that can and should be the subject of scrutiny either by a person or by a known process. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 18:11, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

My view of the process of associating a statement with a reliable source is that the person or entity making the association must be reliable. Since Wikipedia editors are not reliable, Wikipedia does not have an acceptable process for reliably associating a source with a statement. Thus all such associations in Wikipedia are merely clues. Jc3s5h (talk) 18:22, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Wrong venue. This is Wikidata. I would never assume that a source is always valid. Your way is one that includes biased sources, it does not have a process to go back to sources. Again, this is not Wikipedia. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 20:41, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Certainly one can go back to sources using Wikidata. The editor adding information also adds a citation to a reliable source. Jc3s5h (talk) 20:49, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Properties ready for creation backlog

Three weeks ago, I noted here that the backlog of property proposals with consensus for creation was up to 25. It is now nearly double that, at 46. There have been several reminders posted in the interim.

The set of editors with the technical capability to create these properties is clearly unwilling to do so. As a community, how shall we address this?

User:Lydia Pintscher (WMDE), do have a fall-back plan? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:23, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata:Property proposal/Overview and Wikidata:Property proposal/Attention needed are also failing to draw input to proposal discussion from both property creators and the wider community. What should we try next? Thryduulf (talk) 14:47, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

I would like to help and created a request for the required permissions at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Other_rights#Requests_for_the_property_creator_right ChristianKl (talk) 14:54, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

It's really time for athe gadget? --Edgars2007 (talk) 15:08, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

A gadget to create a property? If so, yes please, because there are so many steps after creating a new property. --Stryn (talk) 17:28, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

@Lydia Pintscher (WMDE):? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:50, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I do but I strongly believe that this needs to be sorted out among the editors. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 18:46, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Question about notability

Hi, I read WD:N and I just want to be sure about what I'm going to do: I'd like to import data from (Italian) Wikivoyage about restaurants, places to visit and so on. I want to know if (almost) all those items are notable on Wikidata as they are described by websites like TripAdvisor, Yelp and so on (#2 of WP:N). Best regards, --★ → A ir on 90 16:00, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

If an item is important enough to be written about in any Wikimedia project it's notable under (1). Everything that can be important from Wikivoyage is notable under (1). Apart from that I also consider the restaurants notable under (2) because they can be described by websites like that. ChristianKl (talk) 08:14, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

"written about" and "the subject of a page" are two different things. Many entities are mentioned in passing on one or another of our projects. Are they all notable? Conversely, as we saw recently, the admin community here will do nothing when one admin deletes items, about entities which are the subject of a page on one of our projects, and does so with no prior discussion, and in the face of subsequent objections. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:12, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

As far as I understand we want to allow lists to be shown in projects that link to Wikidata items. List items aren't "the subject of a page". They can simply contain one fact. I think it's valuable to have that information in Wikidata. If you believe that Wikidata shouldn't allow Wikiprojects to simply create lists of facts that then are included in Wikidata, how about speaking up in the discussion about the list generation workflow? If you think it's valid for a Wikidata admin to delete items in someone's list because they aren't about the main topic of an article, that should be brought up in the list building discussion.

It's also very valuable to know when one entity is mentioned in multiple projects. I see no reason to reject content that can be displayed in a Wikimedia project under the local rules from being included in Wikidata.

Can you provide an argument for why it should be in Wikidata's interest to be exclusive like that? ChristianKl (talk) 10:39, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

TripAdvisor is not such a good source. I can find plenty of hotels local to me, which no longer exist (pile of rubble), yet they are still live on TripAdvisor. Adding every hotel and restaurant can be problematic, because who is going to update these millions of items? Danrok (talk) 16:59, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

There are usecases where having historic data is valuable. I don't see the problem with having historic items in the database. If someone cares about only seeing live hotels in a given city it's up to them to clean up the data that's important to them.

@Airon90: reading above, are you talking about 1-to-1 relationship between wikidata Q-items and wikivoyage articles? If so, then yes, as mentioned above. If you are meaning that you are looking to create Q-items for things mentioned in an article (other than being the subject), then my understanding is that such is not notable by the wikimedia link criteria, and all such items should be reviewed more critically. Just appearing in another website is not a criteria for listing at WD. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:02, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

On the English Wikivoyage we have chosen to not push restaurants/museums/etc to Wikidata yet, because we are currently testing scalability and trying to allow the edition of Wikidata properties within Wikivoyage. So while we don't ask for authorization to push them now, we intend to do it in a few years. I think Airon90's words have been misunderstood: We don't want to add all Tripadvisor restaurants to Wikidata, but only a community-maintained selection of about 10 restaurants per city. To get an idea of what we are talking about: Every landmark/restaurant/etc that has a square number at https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Paris/4th_arrondissement Cheers! Syced (talk) 06:56, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata's 4rth birthday

Hello all,

As you know, Wikidata's anniversary is on October 29, and I'm currently preparing some surprises for you, proud editors of the project :)

I will give you more information later in September, but for now, I wanted to ask you what you'd like to happen for the birthday!

What is already planned

We will collect your stories, about fun stuff you did on Wikidata, what you're proud of, your achievements or failures, in any format: short text, blog post, comic strip, video...
Following the idea of 100wikidays, we'll suggest a collective challenge to improve 100 items to be showcase items
A meetup will take place in the WMDE office in Berlin, on November 4rth. You will meet other Wikidata editors, discover some short stories about what they do on Wikidata, tools you may not know yet, play board games and celebrate
You are encouraged to organize a birthday meetup in your area, between October 29 and November 5. Find a place, invite some other Wikidata editors to join you for a drink or a cake!
Of course, we will share a lot of love, birthday cards and cats on Twitter ;)

Do you have other ideas? What would you like to organize for Wikidata's anniversary?

Cheers, Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 12:43, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Unofficial Wikipedia Discord server

There is now an unofficial server for Wikipedians/Wikidatans on Discord. This new chat server provides a useful means of communication to discuss issues and to communicate with other editors more conveniently.

https://discord.gg/khvrRXV

Reguyla (talk) 14:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #225

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

Discussions
- Remember that we would love to have your input about data quality on Wikidata and list generation on Wikipedia!
- What would you like to organize for Wikidata's 4rth birthday?

Events/Press/Blogs
- “Ben Whishaw, Broadway, the RADA and Wikidata” (data integration in the era of semantic web) by Harmonia Amanda
- Hands-on research about Wikidata: My time as a PhD student at Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. by Alessandro Piscopo
- 3 tutorial videos about Wikidata: an intro to Wikidata, how to edit Wikidata and Wikidata Sparql Query Tutorial by Ewan McAndrew, Navino Evans and Sean McBirnie
- Past: First Wikidata workshop in the Czech Republic, Pardubice – imported much open data related to the Czech Republic
- Past: Lydia and Jens from the Wikidata team were at the QTcon to talk about Wikidata and applications (see the slides)

Other Noteworthy Stuff
- The events page is now up to date. You want to join or organise a meetup with other Wikidata editors? Keep an eye on this page!
- 30K entries from Kindred Britain added in Mix’n’Match
- Welsh Wikipedia includes Wikidata-based article placeholders, like this one
- Wiki Loves Monuments started! You can help by improving the items about heritage buildings or use Wikishootme to find unpictured monuments
- English Wikipedia now has a WikiProject Wikidata to coordinate integration with Wikidata. Why not start one for your local Wikipedia? Add it to Q20855878 if you do.

Did you know?

Development
- RDF exports now contain page properties, this allows to query by number of statements or sitelinks (T129046)
- Working on unit conversion for RDF exports (T117031)
- Enabling Wikidata data access in user language deployed (T122670)
- Information about usage of entities in other projects will be visible and reusable (T103091)
- Pasting full entity URLs into suggesters will be possible (T117763)
- Added meta descriptions to allow for better snippets in external search engines (T88475)
- We replaced the old parser limit report (an HTML comment) with the new format (T143423)
- Ongoing refactoring of the frontend JavaScript, this may break user scripts accessing private properties (T142694)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

Monthly Tasks
- Hack on one of these.
- Help develop the next summary here!
- Contribute to a Showcase item
- Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
- Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
- Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
- Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 14:19, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

track and field (Q3312129) and running discipline of track (Q21467672)?

These two items seem to be similar, but my ru/uk knowledge is near to zero and I don’t dare to decide whether these two items should be merged. Could anyone else please make that decision? Thanks, MisterSynergy (talk) 16:32, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

IMO, track and field/athletics have always been messy. But in this case - no, they shouldn't be merged. Ruwiki article is about running events of athletics and they do have article about other parts (technical disciplines, race walking etc.) --Edgars2007 (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, okay. Could you propose a proper en-label? Would something like “track and field – running disciplines” be okay? I am working on the P641 covi page and need proper definitions of type of sport (Q31629) entities (actually defined as subclass of (P279) sport (Q349)). —MisterSynergy (talk) 17:32, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Maybe "running disciplines of track and field" or "running disciplines of athletics"? --Edgars2007 (talk) 17:58, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes that's better without the dash. Btw. in case someone wants to help:

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel WHERE {
  	?item wdt:P279* wd:Q349 .
	SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" }
} ORDER BY ASC(?itemLabel)

Try it!

--- This query yields 950 entities with subclass of (P279) sport (Q349). Many of them need to be repaired. Thanks, MisterSynergy (talk) 18:05, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

How would we go about interconnecting "Atlas of Living Australia"

It we wanted to get something like Atlas of Living Australia (Q16335177) interconnected here, what would be the process? We don't appear to have a page that talks about the process, or even something which institutions can look at to see what is possible. At this stage it all seems to live at a technical strata level.

If you look at something iconic like eastern grey kangaroo (Q270098) which has a corresponding page at ALA, and that page itself lists datasets, including a "dataset" of Wikipedia. It seems that we could get better interconnectivity at a data level. If I was to talk to them to gauge their interest, I cannot identify where at Wikidata I should point their technical people. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:35, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Propose a new poperty for their Life Science Identifier (Q6459954) (in your example 43639327-3bc9-43ae-861b-e0f982b1a8b2). --Succu (talk) 18:23, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @Succu:, I was thinking in the much broader sense of two-way interconnectivity with them as an organisation, though I can understand that we probably want to start with an identifier (though that one is pretty ugly, and who knows whether it is stable). Note that I hate proposing properties, I find I don't have the patience to sit down and wind through the complexity of the (ugly) process, and in the end I just walk away in frustration. It has also been my experience here that few are willing to propose on behalf of others or assist when asked. :-/ — billinghurst sDrewth 22:37, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm happy to advise on or assist with property proposals. The identifier in question is part of a URN (Q76497), so should be stable. The example page linked to above includes a Wikipedia URL, so that will help with matching. Do you have any contacts at ALA? You can put them in touch with me if that helps. The draft guide, in preparation at User:John Cummings/data import guide, may be useful. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

@billinghurst:: There are lots of ugly in your comment. A LSID has to be globally unique and is usually based on globally unique identifier (Q254972). It's not meant to be read or recognised by humans and we have allready some of them.. Basically you can copy this proposal. Ping me if you are unsure about it. --Succu (talk) 19:35, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Property or qualifier

While curating entries on public transit in the Bay Area (e.g. N Judah (Q6956302)) – in an effort to reproduce metro line networks similar to those created for other large cities – I stumbled across this issue: what's the recommended use of adjacent station (P197) and connecting line (P81) for items about individual metro stations? There are two common patterns:

the French way: use adjacent station (P197) as a top-level statement and represent the name of the line via a qualifier, e.g. Reuilly - Diderot (Q647271) (these items also list connecting lines as separate statements).
the British way: use connecting line (P81) as a top-level statement and represent the name of adjacent stations via a qualifier, e.g. Euston Square tube station (Q1366453).

Can someone advise on the pros and cons of each approach? I am also interested in hearing about modeling of directions not identified by line termini (for example Muni Metro (Q278074) uses inbound and outbound)

Notified participants of WikiProject Railways. --DarTar (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't have an opinion on the first part of this query, but for directions I think having an e.g. inbound item with an appropriate description is the best way to do it. I know of directions being indicated as all of the below:
- Towards <terminus> (e.g. at Docklands Light Railway (Q216360) stations, signs state e.g. "Trains towards Bank and Stratford"/"Trains towards Lewisham")
- North/East/South/Westbound
- Inbound (towards the city centre)/Outbound (away from the city centre) (used in this way by e.g. Nottingham Express Transit (Q64138)
- Inner rail/Outer rail (e.g. the loop at the east end of Central line (Q205355) is designated as such operationally, "outer rail" is clockwise as trains run on the left)
  - In line/Out line (Yellow line (Q19960799) terminology for the same thing, the "in line" is the inside of the loop, thus anticlockwise)
- Clockwise/Anticlockwise
- Up/Down (most mainline railways in the UK, "Up" is most commonly towards London, the principle terminus of the line, or the junction with the mainline but there are exceptions).
There are probably others I'm not aware of. Thryduulf (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I think both concepts are correct and logic. I tend to prefer second approach. Any thoughts which one is better for machine processing and infobox use?--Jklamo (talk) 07:46, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

"Schools in..." Spanish cities

For Catalonia (a region in Spain) I'm trying to link all of the "schools in" categories across Wikipedias. But I think ESwiki has two separate ones, a "centros educativos in..." and a "escuelas de"...

I am not sure how best to link the cats, or what should be moved where. Are any Spanish-speaking or Catalan-speaking editors interested in untangling this mess?

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 17:53, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@WhisperToMe:

Done Andreasm ^{háblame / just talk to me} 12:45, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

@Andreasmperu: Thank you! The interesting dillemma is that we don't really use the term "educational centers" in English so it may be good to Spanish and Catalan-speaking editors to explain how the terms are used in Spain and other countries. In the U.S. when someone speaks Spanish they call a school an "escuela" (most immigrants come from Latin America, with Mexicans being predominant in the southwest and much of the interior while the East Coast is dominated by Central American, Caribbean, and South American-origin Hispanics) - But I learned in Spain "colegio" is more popular, so some Spanish speakers I think are choosing "centro educativo" as a compromise or something? It may be good to have a multilingual (English-Spanish-Catalan-French) guide on this issue on Wikidata. WhisperToMe (talk) 12:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

That is why I added the respective Commons category in each item. A school is a type of educational centre, so Category:Educational centres in Catalonia (Q6204541) includes schools, but also universities, art schools, and music schools.

Items with a city but no country: How to set the country automatically?

I want to make sure all embassy items have a country (P17).

Many of them have a located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) but no country (P17) (example with Moscow as P131 but no country).

Is there a bot or trick I could use to fill the countries automatically using each item's P131?

Thanks! Syced (talk) 05:55, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

It is not necessary. By implication a city is linked to a country. Typically through "is in the administrative unit of". Thanks, GerardM (talk) 09:17, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

country (P17) is set for many location-related articles, some even set continent (P30), even though it can be implied in most cases - and at least the country makes some sense as it simplifies queries a lot. However for embassies country (P17) can be understood in two way - the country where it is located (host country), or the country to which it belongs, thus it may be good it is missing. It was discussed here before, but IIRC there was no consensus on how to set the properties for an embassy "correctly" with the existing properties/qualifiers, or whether we need specific properties for embassies to avoid the country ambiguity. Ahoerstemeier (talk) 08:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

country (P17) for embassies, etc has been discussed several times on here and every time there has been no objections to the structure suggested that uses country (P17) for the host country. I would not object to a new "host country" property for embassies, consulates, military bases, etc if you want to propose it though. Thryduulf (talk) 10:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Little is strictly necessary. Having the information allows easy listing of all embassies in a country from Wikivoyage. ChristianKl (talk) 10:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Adding both seems indeed more sensible, at least if the item is about the function and not a specific building. The actual location can be set with P276. P159 might even be better, but would need to have its label changed. An item for an actual building would only have one P17 (as other buildings). It seems to be a frequent confusion between the two. Country listing for Wikivoyage should be possible from the qualifiers on P530.
--- Jura 11:10, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_International_relations does define how count country (P17) should be used in this case. The problem seems that the knowledge isn't easily discoverable. ChristianKl (talk) 17:16, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it keeps being changed. I don't think it's consistent with International relations on the same page and other government offices in general.
--- Jura 17:53, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Property_talk:P473#LOCAL dialing code

Since I think that the above talk page is monitored, I've thought to highlight it here as well. Thanks for your feedback. --Andyrom75 (talk) 21:07, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

There's anyone that provide me a feedback on the topic of written there? For every reader's convenience I'll copy here the trhee points:

local dialing code (P473) shouldn't have the international code in its values
Its property format as a regular expression (P1793) should be changed from [\d\- \+]+ into [\d\- ]+
A bot should remove the international code easily recognizable by matching the relevant country code in the associated country instance

On top of the previous points I would add that, since every local code is used in local call with a zero at the beginning, but when is used for international call (with the country code) in some country the zero remains and in others the zero disappear, I would store all the local codes with the variable part in brackets. Let me give you few examples to better clarify:

Italy
- Local area code stored: 06 ...no variable part
- Local area code + number: 06 123456 ...the zero must be kept
- International area code + local area code + number: +39 06 123456 ...the zero must be kept
Netherlands
- Local area code stored: (0)30 ...0 is a variable part
- Local area code + number: 030 123456 ...the zero must be kept
- International area code + local area code + number: +31 30 123456 ...the zero must be removed

Other ideas to save somehow/somewhere this information are welcome as well. Let me know, --Andyrom75 (talk) 17:32, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Help:Constraints

Is there a help page anywhere that explains constraints and how they work? This has come up at Wikidata:Property proposal/official tourist website but I can't find anything - Help:Constraint, Help:Constraints, Help:Property constraint and Help:Property constraints are all red; Help:Properties only mentions them in passing (when discussing data types) and none of the see alsos there have anything useful. Thryduulf (talk) 21:19, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

@Thryduulf, GerardM, Pasleim, Succu, Pigsonthewing, Lea Lacroix (WMDE): I have created a page to which three of the four redlinks mentioned have redirected; the fourth is in fact that page. That page should be translated and overhauled as needed. (If I forgot to ping anyone better equipped to expand that page, please do so.) Mahir256 (talk) 02:09, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Thryduulf (talk) 09:51, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I think Ivan A. Krestinin made Template:Constraint for this. Odd that you wouldn't know about it.
--- Jura 07:24, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- That explains how to use the constraint templates, but assumes you know what a constraint is and how they operated on Wikidata. I'm not sure why you think it likely I would be looking for a basic introduction page in template space? Thryduulf (talk) 09:51, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
  - I had assumed you'd know about these templates. Never mind.
    --- Jura 10:12, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

official website

I often find strange things in official website (P856) and therefor remove such statements. But I guess many of the websites I have removed, could be moved to a property with a wider range. Often these pages are about a thing/place in some manner. It is often fan sites or tourist information. Do we have properties for such websites or should we propose new ones? I definitely think such pages could be within the range of this project, even if they are not within the range of P856. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 09:45, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

See the discussion at Wikidata:Property proposal/official tourist website regarding tourist information. In many cases adding a Curlie ID (P998) statement will be useful. We don't have a way of duplicating a Wikipedia's "external links" section, and I'm not sure we really should as even being conservative that's going to average about 2 non-official websites per language. Thryduulf (talk) 09:57, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I currently edit about localities. There is nothing "official" about them at all. All websites about them are made by private persons or by local entrepreneurs. Such pages are valid under "external links" on svwiki, but not under "official webpage". -- Innocent bystander (talk) 10:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

described at URL (P973) could work for you.
--- Jura 10:15, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Please take part in the Flow satisfaction survey

(That message in other languages: العربية • ‎bosanski • ‎català • ‎Deutsch • ‎Esperanto • ‎français • ‎עברית • ‎polski • ‎português • ‎português do Brasil • ‎русский • ‎اردو • ‎中文 – ‎translate that message)

Hello!

An increasing number of communities now use Flow (like Wikidata) or are considering it. Although Flow itself is not scheduled for major development during 2016 fiscal year, the Collaboration Team remains interested in the project and in providing an improved system for structured discussions.

You can help us make decisions about the way forward in this area by sharing your thoughts about Flow — what works, doesn't work or should be improved?

Please fill out this survey, which is administered by a third-party service. It will not require an email or your username. See our privacy statement.

Thanks for your ideas and opinions about Flow!

Trizek (WMF), on behalf of the Collaboration team, 11:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

@User:Trizek (WMF): I filled the survey, but I'd recommend to use another service next time. Besides the layout being ugly and confusing, Qualtrics allowed me to select multiple options in the same radio button group (while it did not allow me to deselect them again, and of course later complained about it), and I was unable to change the ranks of the five issues I was asked to rank in the end. --YMS (talk) 12:19, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

@Trizek (WMF): previous ping did not work (yes, pinging is easier with Flow). --YMS (talk) 12:20, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. I'll forward it to the survey's specialist who helped me to set up that questionnaire. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 12:30, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

List generation input: new Wikidata usecase

At Wikidata_talk:List_generation_input#C2:_model_lists_in_Wikidata_to_expand_Wikidata, I added a Wikidata usecase. Maybe you want to comment (here or there) on it.
--- Jura 22:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

How to get all Wikidata items in a country?

Using SPARQL I want to show all French embassies in Liberia (spoiler: there is exactly one)

So I wrote this naive query:

   SELECT ?item WHERE {
        ?item wdt:P17 wd:Q1014.    # country: Liberia
   	?item wdt:P31 wd:Q3917681. # instance of: embassy
     	?item wdt:P137 wd:Q142.    # operated by: France
   }

PROBLEM: It finds zero items. Even though there is such an item in Liberia, more exactly it is located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) of Monrovia (Q3748), which itself has a country (P17) value of Liberia (Q1014).

More generally, I want to get ALL Wikidata items that are in a particular country. How to do?

Thanks! (also asked at OpenData.StackExchange) Syced (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Replace ?item wdt:P17 wd:Q1014. with ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q1014., and it should work. Maybe also add distinct after SELECT if you want to remove duplicates. --Yair rand (talk) 05:12, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! While your tip works in Liberia, it fails in Germany:

SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?itemLabel ?countryLabel WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q183.  # country: Germany
  ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q3917681.       # instance of: embassy
  ?item wdt:P137 ?country.          # operated by: ...
  SERVICE wikibase:label {bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en"}
  }

Try it!

... should return Embassy of France in Berlin (Q554046), but it returns zero results. Any idea? Syced (talk) 07:42, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Fixed it (now one result), and added a useful template... --MisterSynergy (talk) 07:49, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Adding some labels, ... --Molarus 09:53, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

How would you deal with something that is in a country that no longer exists? Eg the Ottoman empire? Thanks, GerardM (talk) 09:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?itemLabel ?hostcountryLabel ?countryLabel WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 ?hostcountry.  # country: ...
  ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q3917681.       # instance of: embassy
  ?item wdt:P137 ?country.          # operated by: ...
  SERVICE wikibase:label {bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en"}
  } ORDER BY ASC(?hostcountryLabel)

Try it!

Maybe this way? I would see all embassies in all countries, even former countries. By the way, I have seen a few days ago in this youtube video how to show the results of a sparql-query at a map and with pictures from commons if available. It is really cool. (I think, the coordination code should be within an "OPTIONAL", because otherwise I would get listed only those embassies with coordination data.) --Molarus 10:09, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Merging request

Hi,
Q16115148 and Q21503591 (Onge people) should be merged
Thanks - 195.132.51.193 16:41, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Done Tubezlob (🙋) 16:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Constraint violation on P6

On head of government (P6), the constraint for value type: human has suddenly marked every case as a violation. I don't see what change caused this. Can anyone help? Arctic.gnome (talk) 15:00, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

It seems the bot had problems in its latest run. For Thailand central administrative unit code (P1067) it suddenly lists about 100 items less than before, and I am quite sure these weren't deleted or merged. Ahoerstemeier (talk) 19:10, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I've had one of the large constraint reports suddenly lose about 40% of the entries. Should hopefully be okay when it next resets. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:00, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Print and Online ISSN

We have only one property for ISSN (P236), but most academic journals have now two ISSNs, one for the Print and one for the Online version. Example Nature (Q180445) has P-ISSN 0028-0836 and E-ISSN 1476-4687. A solution with qualifiers would be possible, but IMHO it would be better to force people to decide for one property. So what about splitting P236 into two properties?--Kopiersperre (talk) 19:01, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

I think a qualifier for different media types fits better (this could simulate the linking ISSN). --Succu (talk) 19:22, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

yes, a qualifier to mark an ISSN as EISSN is enough. --JakobVoss (talk) 19:35, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

To ensure data quality all P-ISSNs should have a qualifier, too. We have 33,128 items with an ISSN and probably there is some mixing of print/online ISSNs.--Kopiersperre (talk) 20:15, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Basically I'm more uncomfortable with mixups between preceding and following ISSN titles. --Succu (talk) 20:56, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Get a image if available, without duplicating if item has several images

I want a list of all UK-operated items in Germany, each with an associated image if available.

SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?image WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P131 wd:Q64.            # operated by the UK
  ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q145.  # in Germany
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P18 ?image.}  # get an image if there is one
}

Try it!

PROBLEM: As you can see if you try it, the query above return the same embassy twice, because this embassy happens to have two images. I can not place a LIMIT 1 at the end, because there could be several UK-operated items in Germany.

QUESTION: How to limit the number of images to only one? If the item has 3 images, I would like to just pick one of them, I don't care which one.

I tried to use LIMIT 1 within the context of the image only, but the query below returns an image that has nothing to do with the item:

SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?image WHERE {
 ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q183.
 ?item wdt:P137 wd:Q145.
 {
  SELECT ?image {
   OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P18 ?image .}
  } LIMIT 1
 }
 }

Try it!

How to do? Thank you! Syced (talk) 15:29, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

I´m not sure if that is the solution. At least I have found the information, that "subqueries are evaluated from the innermost first, to the outermost". Therefore this code might do it. --Molarus 16:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

SELECT ?image Where {
SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?image WHERE {
 ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q183.
 ?item wdt:P137 wd:Q145.
 OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P18 ?image } 
}
} Limit 1

Try it!

One way to deal with it is GROUP BY/SAMPLE:

SELECT ?item (SAMPLE(?image) as ?image) WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P131 wd:Q64.            # operated by the UK
  ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q145.  # in Germany
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P18 ?image.}  # get an image if there is one
} GROUP BY ?item

Try it!

Downside is you can't choose which image shows up. --Smalyshev (WMF) (talk) 21:15, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

GROUP BY solves the problem indeed! I don't mind which image shows up, any of the available images is fine. Thanks a lot :-) Syced (talk) 02:41, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this seems to prevent me from adding any other field to the SELECT. For instance, if I add ?website like below I get a "Bad aggregate" error:

SELECT ?item ?website (SAMPLE(?image) as ?image) WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P131 wd:Q64.               # operated by the UK
  ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q145.     # in Germany
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P18 ?image.}     # get an image if there is one
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P856 ?website .} # get the website if there is one
} GROUP BY ?item

Try it!

Any idea how to make this work? Thanks a lot! Syced (talk) 03:04, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

You have to put ?website in another SAMPLE in select part. Putting variable in group by would also prevent from getting error, but then only items, which has P856, would show up in results. --Edgars2007 (talk) 05:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Cool, that fixed this field! Last problem: City labels don't show up anymore, see the empty string generated for ?cityLabel:

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel (SAMPLE(?image) as ?image) (SAMPLE(?website) as ?website) (SAMPLE(?cityLabel) as ?cityLabel) WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P131 wd:Q64.               # operated by the UK
  ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q145.     # in Germany
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P18 ?image.}     # get an image if there is one
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P856 ?website.}  # get the website if there is one
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P131 ?city.}     # get the city if there is one
  SERVICE wikibase:label {bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en"}
} GROUP BY ?item ?itemLabel

Try it!

Any idea how to correctly select itemLabel and cityLabel? I have spotted "rdfs:label" usage here but not sure whether it is the way to go... Thank you! Syced (talk) 06:23, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel (SAMPLE(?image) as ?image) (SAMPLE(?website) as ?website) (SAMPLE(?city_label) as ?cityLabel) WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P131 wd:Q64.               # operated by the UK
  ?item wdt:P131*/wdt:P17 wd:Q145.     # in Germany
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P18 ?image.}     # get an image if there is one
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P856 ?website.}  # get the website if there is one
  OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P131 ?city.
  			?city rdfs:label ?city_label .
 			 filter (lang(?city_label) = "en") .
           }     # get the city if there is one
  SERVICE wikibase:label {bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en"}
} GROUP BY ?item ?itemLabel

Try it!

--Edgars2007 (talk) 06:58, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Wonderful, everything is working great now :-) Syced (talk) 10:40, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Property proposal list for ready proposals

When it comes to creating properties it would be nice if there would be a list that shows all properties that are marked ready. ChristianKl (talk) 16:37, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Not exactly a list, but it's available here. --Edgars2007 (talk) 16:56, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Wrong dates

I was able to add non-existing date. Do we plan to do something with it? Maybe a new constraint? I would start this section at WD:Devs (to propose disallow inputting wrong dates), but then realised, that there could be some cases, when wrong date isn't wrong. Don't know, how wide the problem is, doesn't seem to be easy queriable in SPARQL. --Edgars2007 (talk) 20:43, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

phab:T85296 might be relevant. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 20:50, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

It is told in phabricator that Feb 30 existed in the Swedish calendar. That is true, but only in the year 1712. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 04:15, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Sjoerd. --Edgars2007 (talk) 06:13, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Q15713172 like items

2014 Orlando Predators season (Q15713172). Maybe somebody can suggest some good P31 value for such items? Also for something like "Germany at the 2015 World Championships in athletics"/"Germany at the 2015 World Championships in ice hockey". We could then tag few thousands of items without P31. --Edgars2007 (talk) 06:16, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

OK, nevermind. For reference: will use events in a specific year or time period (Q18340514). --Edgars2007 (talk) 06:20, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Maybe aspect of history (Q17524420) (or something more specific), plus a facet of (P1269) Orlando Predators (Q2304286) and facet of (P1269) 2014 Arena Football League season (Q16820895) statements which relates this season article to the club and the season. Any other ideas? —MisterSynergy (talk) 06:24, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, of course, I'm open to proposals. Will be honest, don't like aspect of history (Q17524420) very much. About your proposed facets: currently I plan to set some P31 values, not make items very pretty, but thanks for suggestion. But I would replace facet of (P1269)=2014 Arena Football League season (Q16820895) with maybe part of (P361)=2014 Arena Football League season (Q16820895). --Edgars2007 (talk) 06:33, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

instance of (P31)=sports season of a sports club (Q1539532)? --Pasleim (talk) 06:41, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

It is neither a sports season, nor a part of it. I would still recommend to use this facet of (P1269) property for such cases. —MisterSynergy (talk) 06:48, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) (reply to Pasleim) Although it has been used on some "[year] [team] season" (saw in Spec.:Whatlinkshere), I would like to not mix up club seasons with league seasons, where instance of (P31)=sports season of a sports club (Q1539532) is OK. Those are not the same things. --Edgars2007 (talk) 06:51, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

sports season of a sports club (Q1539532) has the description "the activity of a sports club during the portion of one year" so I think it's intended to be used on club seasons and not leauge seaons. And there are more than 50.000 club seaons linking to it. --Pasleim (talk) 06:57, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

That’s an odd item to my opinion. The Wikipedia articles seem to describe another meaning of “season” (more or less simply a period of time), and the en-desc does not fit the the "subclass of sports competition" (and therefore event (Q1656682)) claim. —MisterSynergy (talk) 07:05, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

There are many such items .. Wikidata:Database reports/without claims by site used to be full of it. For now, I added mainly P640 to these, but I think completing it with P31=sports season of a sports club (Q1539532) and facet of (P1269) Orlando Predators (Q2304286) seems a good idea.
--- Jura 07:25, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

It seems to be the ~~set~~class of all sport related events, specifically the results, in a specific year. The the period of time is something like "between two consecutive summer break" or something like that - we definitely need something to specify that for classes of recurring stuffs to specify the timely manner. We can note that the team can change its members and staff beetween two such seasons. We may need an item for this definition (description) if nothing matches. author TomT0m / talk page 07:41, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Also, to link those items to the team I'd pretty well see something like

⟨ Los Angeles Lakers season ⟩ has quality Search ⟨ values in qualifiers ⟩
participant (P710) ⟨ Los Angeles Lakers ⟩

because the Lakers were definitely involved in any instance of sport events in this season. Or "opponents" for all we know - if we restrict the class to all competitions. author TomT0m / talk page 07:47, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

OK, my suggestion (simply about P31 value, not others - I'm fine with using facets). Use two different "season" items (and fix existing sports season of a sports club (Q1539532), so it doesn't contradict with itself) - one for leagues and one for teams. Maybe we can create subclasses like "soccer season" for both league and team items. Then we can build structure on one/two items, not on 50,000+ items. Agree? --Edgars2007 (talk) 08:04, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Not enough details, I don't understand. An example of what you would want to achieve ? Is is about not having "Los Angeles Lakers season" like items and better having more generic classes like "sport team season" or "basketball team season" ? No formal opposition. It's just that statements like

⟨ Los Angeles Lakers season ⟩ has quality Search ⟨ values in qualifiers ⟩
participant (P710) ⟨ Los Angeles Lakers ⟩

could spare a few trivial statements in its tenth of instances :) overwise its essentially the same. author TomT0m / talk page 10:31, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I was suggesting to have something like P31="basketball team season" on "2015-16 LA Lakers season" item. And P31="basketball league season" on "2015-16 NBA season" item. And on those "basketball (team|league) season" items we can build the needed structure. --Edgars2007 (talk) 17:36, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

P800 the difference between "notable work" and "known for"

I have used the P800 at Q6167446 because this lady is particularly "known for" the Grunwick dispute. The way the label works is imho incorrect. A notable work is what someone is known for but it does not work the other way around. So the label has to change. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 06:58, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

This seems to stem from a conflation of the English noun "work" (a creatively-made item such as a novel or song) and the noun derived from the verb, "to work", as in "he did his work on Wikidata". It seems to me that notable work (P800) is intended for the former. Why not add her as a participant on the Grunwick item? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:14, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

"Category:Wikipedia good articles" (Q7045856) on Wikidata:Database reports/without claims by site

The category is currently on the following lists:

meaning that it's one of the most frequent categories for items that don't have any statements and linked to these Wikipedia versions.

It seems that Wikidata isn't a factor of making it a "good article".

If you want to find which articles for a specific language: 84 links to add instance of (P31)= to items without statements in categories of sitelinks on Category:Wikipedia good articles (Q7045856): en, id, simple, el, fr, az, lv, sr, sv, de, ja, fi, be_x_old, be, ba, ca, sq, ru, et, lt, uk, sk, no, ro, mk, kk, pt, da, pl, eo, it, hy, bs, zh, cs, es, bg, tr, more: frr, rue, kbd, gl, arz, br, ar, se, cdo, vi, yi, fa, ha, nap, vep, hi, fy, udm, lez, gn, bxr, ast, bn, an, yo, mn, ko, ab, tt, lad, ckb, is, oc, fo, als, hsb, uz, as, krc, bh, cu, crh, th, zh_yue, ce, ms,

enwiki returns 0 items.
--- Jura 07:34, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Q926736 + Q19903355

flavored wine cooking (Q926736)   + aromatised wine (Q19903355)   Hi everyone. Those tow items should be linked. I'm not sure how to proceed. Any help ? --TwoWings (talk) 12:37, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@TwoWings: please try Help:Merge :) author TomT0m / talk page 12:43, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

woops don't, one is about the process, and one is about the result ? author TomT0m / talk page 12:48, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

No it looks like it's exactly the same subject. Maybe the way it's explained differs from one language to another, but it's the same thing. Thanks for your help. --176.140.161.78 07:02, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@176.140.161.78: In french, the article is about the process of making aromatized wine, whereas in other wikipedias, it's about the result. author TomT0m / talk page 17:21, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@TwoWings: I'll also add a section to WD:XLINK because it seems to be a case of cross subject interwiki. author TomT0m / talk page 17:29, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Problem with wbsetreference

I am trying to add a link to the source through:

https://www.wikidata.org/w/api.php?action=wbsetreference&format=json&statement=Q2164$D4220CD6-A717-4785-BBD7-0BB78EC9AF70&snaks:{"P248":[{"snaktype":"value","property":"P248","datatype":"wikibase-item","datavalue":{"value":{"entity-type":"item","numeric-id":26842998},"type":"wikibase-entityid"}}]},"snaks-order":["P248"]

but I get an error: {"servedby":"mw1226","error":{"code":"nosnaks","info":"The snaks parameter must be set","*":"See https://www.wikidata.org/w/api.php for API usage"}}

What am I doing wrong? Help me please. Игорь Темиров (talk) 15:34, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

You don't provide the snaks parameter because of the colon in &snaks:{"P248": (there should be a =). Matěj Suchánek (talk) 17:48, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

A whole head broke :) Thank you so much, Matěj!!! Игорь Темиров (talk) 21:16, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata map

Can somebody explain what was the basis for drawing international borders and choosing the language for the recent Wikidata map that was publicized by Wikidata weekly summary #224 and why it is so much different from Google map?

The border between Russia and Ukraine is given in the Russian interpretation of two years ago and is not recognized by any international treaty. On the other hand Nine-dash line claimed by China dozens of years ago is not shown.

All names in Kazakhstan (Қазақстан) are shown in Russian as if it is already a Russian colony. Québec is in French only, Abkhazia is in Abkhaz and Russian (Аҧсны/Абхазия, Google is using Georgian) while most other provinces in the world are not labeled with local languages. I guess the list of oddities is very long especially for disputed and occupied territories.--Sk741~ukwiki (talk) 18:33, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

The map: OpenStreetMap Danrok (talk) 22:54, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Also what "Google is using" depends on what they expect to best fit to how you (or your government) want it to be. In OSM (which btw is quite similiar to Wikipedia/Wikidata, as in "everyone can improve it" and "everyone should be able to use it in the same way") the map is attempted to fit what actually is there in real-life. --Nenntmichruhigip (talk) 11:40, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Google Maps is (or was) user editable, see Map Maker, and OSM has maps submitted/imported by governments, much of Estonia for example. Danrok (talk) 16:36, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Assuming you intended to answer to my posting: Both not what I meant, but I see how it can be misunderstood, so let me try to clarify: By "how your government wants" I didn't mean that any government is making Google manipualte it's map view (though that might be possible</conspiracytheory>) or providing their own data such that Google can decide to add them (like it is with the imports on OSM you mentioned), but that a user from one country will likely see that country's variant of Google Maps, even if he prefers another country's opinion on how some country's border "is". And Google Map Maker is quite a lot different from how Wikipedia (or OSM) is free as in freedom. --Nenntmichruhigip (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

OSM and a map of OSM is not the same. You have Open Street Map, the extracting of data (how recent is the data) and the rendering of the data. With rendering you can choose to show or hide disputed borders for example. So OSM can also be used to create different maps. Please verify that the latest data is used for rendering and that disputed borders are handled correctly. --Hannolans (talk) 07:41, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@Danrok: OpenStreetMap issued a special statement about Crimea and states that Crimea has to be shown as disputed and as parts of both Russia is Ukraine. There is no reason why it should be shown differently when OSM is being used by Wikidata, thus we must display it in exactly the same way, i.e. as a disputed region.

@Sk741~ukwiki: OpenStreetMap has a rule on using names in local languages, i.e. if all signs in a city are in certain language, then OSM will also display them in the same language. This is the reason why place and street names in Québec are in French (and on the other side, place and street names in, say, Manitoba, are in English). Same probably applies to other territories — NickK (talk) 07:47, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I think OSM is quite fair. It treats countries by their de facto (Q712144) situation. Basically Republic of Artsakh (Q244165) is part of Armenia and Abkhazia (Q23334) is independent and so it's getting labeled.--Kopiersperre (talk) 08:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Actually not, they are all labelled as disputed in OSM. I don't see why they should not be labelled in the same way here in Wikidata given that we have NPOV and not only de facto situation — NickK (talk) 08:25, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks everybody for comments. I hope @Lea Lacroix (WMDE): will care to comment. It's my understanding that somebody took OpenStreetMap, changed international borders and language in some areas and uploaded it to maps.wikimedia.org. And it is maps.wikimedia.org template that is used to provide output for Wikidata query. So the question is why it was done?

Separately, I doubt that OpenStreetMap reflects de facto situation with the set of languages, at least for Alger.--Sk741~ukwiki (talk) 11:21, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Hello @Sk741~ukwiki:, a lot of useful answers have already been given above. We use OSM because it's the best free and collaborative map project but it can contain mistakes. Bug can also happen during the integration of the map in maps.wikimedia.org. I'll look for more information about it. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 13:11, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. May be @Yurik: will explain what is going on with maps.wikimedia.org.--Sk741~ukwiki (talk) 07:49, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T113008

Sk741~ukwiki, we already had some discussion on MW/Maps page about this, and are tracking this bug at phab:T113008. The fundamental problem is that when drawing disputed (dashed) borders, we have to NOT draw any lines underneath it. For example, a country border, region border, and city border may all be the same line, and we need to figure out that they are geometrically overlapping one on top of the other, and decide not to draw them. Otherwise, if we draw thin region border line, and a dashed disputed line on top of it, it still looks like a solid line. Specifically with Crimea, there are two types of borders - land (with Ukraine) and water (with Russia). The water borders are usually not drawn, or at least drawn very lightly. The land border suffers from the above issue. Hence it may appear that there is no dispute, while it is clearly not the case. I hope it explains the problem, and we are still working on fixing it. --Yurik (talk) 14:50, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Dormant properties II

Few months ago we had an "wikidata-edit-athon" on dormant properties. Maybe we can have a second round? This time I have created a separate page with link to property talk page (which may contain some useful info), number of items, that this property is used on, and property datatype, if anybody is interested. There may be some properties, that should be there (that are meant to be used on propertiy pages), you can simply remove them. Have some fun :) --Edgars2007 (talk) 18:13, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: I've already gotten a start. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:28, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Dates on Q12903423

2015 in science (Q12903423) and such items (<year> in something). What time properties should be used? point in time (P585):<year> OR start time (P580):1 January <year> and end time (P582):31 December <year>. I personally don't care, in case of second option it only requires some few additional lines of code in script. Or there may be cases, when second option would be wrong? I can't think of such, but maybe somebody else can :) --Edgars2007 (talk) 07:06, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Both.
--- Jura 09:55, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be redundant? If you're suggesting using all three props. --Edgars2007 (talk) 11:27, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

It depends on the tool/query you are using.
--- Jura 11:36, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

When speaking of "tools". In the templates on svwiki, I have used the "lack of 'end date' as qualifier" as an indication of a valid statement in 'present time'. One problem I have found in the item about Canada is that many claims describing the present time has "end date:novale" as qualifier. For example flag image (P41), flag (P163), coat of arms image (P94), highest judicial authority (P209), head of government (P6), head of state (P35), office held by head of state (P1906) all have such qualifiers in their claims. To some degree, that claim is maybe true now, but it also indicates that "Elisabeth II", like Kim Il-sung (Q41117) is some kind of "eternal leader". But my main problem now is that the templates on svwiki do not import a claim with "end date" as qualifier. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 14:27, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

You mean that the template can't read the qualifier? If yes you can modify Template:Wikidata (Q8478926) to read the qualifier, with the Italian version you can do it: ex. {{Wikidata|P38|showqualifiers=P580|from=Q38}} → euro (1º gennaio 2002)

@ValterVB: It can read the qualifiers, but I have intentionally set it to skip all claims with P580 as qualifier. Every step in the templates/modules demands server time and if I can simply skip them instead of looking for if they are set to "novalue" or a future time, makes the templates/modules demands less resources. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 07:01, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Fix/merge request

Seriously, why is merging entries such a pain these days? I have no idea how to fix the problem with Q11736392/Q11736391. en:Karolcia = pl:Karolcia (powieść). There are no other interwikis, but all I get are errors when I try to link those articles from English/Polish Wikipedia. I hope someone here can help. --Piotrus (talk) 07:53, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

You can't merge items when both contain a sitelink to the same project. I removed the invalid sitelink from Karolcia (Q11736391) and merged the items with the merge gadget. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 07:56, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

There is a help page Help:Merge and merge tool (described there). Reading and using them will relieve a pain. --Jklamo (talk) 10:01, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

RevisionSlider

From September 13th on, RevisionSlider will be available as a beta feature in your wiki. The RevisionSlider adds a slider view to the diff page, so that you can easily move between revisions. The feature fulfills a wish from the German Community’s Technical Wishlist. Everyone is invited to test the feature and we hope that it will serve you well in your work!

Birgit Müller (WMDE) 15:08, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Indians from Africa

In the sixties many people originally from India were expelled from Africa and/or found that they were no longer welcome. How do you signify this for a person? How do you mention this in Wikidata on a macro level? Thanks, GerardM (talk) 07:11, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Could you point to sources that describe this in more detail? ChristianKl (talk) 07:59, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

read your history books.. This is one example of someone who fell victim of this. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 10:05, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Given what's written in Enwiki the person seems to have been expelled from Tanzania. That's in itself no indication that there's no place in Africa where the person would have been welcome. ChristianKl (talk) 16:18, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

A bit dirty, but i will use

⟨ Freddie Mercury ⟩ significant event (P793) ⟨ deportation (Q379693)  

 ⟩
relative to (P2210) ⟨ Zanzibar Islands (Q1774)  

 ⟩
point in time (P585) ⟨ Q2652 ⟩

--Jklamo (talk) 10:31, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

HarvestTempltes

Is there a problem with HarvestTemplates? I've attempted to import data for two new properties today, signed in using my bot account, and it's not adding anything, It finds the expected pages, and gives the usual red line for "template not found", but just skips the rest, reporting "done" when it reaches the end of the list. (CC: User:Pasleim) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:58, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Other users are currently editing with HarvestTemplates [2] so there is no general problem with the tool. Which property from which template did you want to harvest? --Pasleim (talk) 18:03, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Pasleim: One was looking for en:Template:Scottish charity, which finds en:Association for Scottish Literary Studies, corresponding to Association for Scottish Literature (Q2868008), but adds no value for |1= to Scottish Charity number (P3163). Exporting as CSV gives empty cells for the QID and value. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:06, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

It's working now. The wrong value type constraint messed it up. --Pasleim (talk) 18:13, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Pasleim: Good spot, thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:56, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for the circumstances. And thanks for fixing it. These constraints templates never were good friends of me. ;) --YMS (talk) 07:57, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

described by source

Hi there. I've got a quiestion about property "described by source (described by source (P1343))" - should I use it only with encyclopedias, or I can use it with some articles? For example, I've just added one big (40 pages) biographical and critic article about Honoré Daumier from well-known russian art historian and critic to wikisource (Q26877134). Can I use it in Honoré Daumier page with "described by source" property? Or it is not suitable for it?--Stolbovsky (talk) 08:59, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd be tempted to say linki Q26877134 to Honoré Daumier (Q187506) using main subject (P921) and use statement is subject of (P805) for the inverse relationship. described by source (P1343) is variously described as being for "dictionary, encyclopaedia, etc" or "dictionary or encyclopaedia" so I'm not sure it's quite the right property to use here. Thryduulf (talk) 15:00, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
- statement is subject of (P805) looks good. Thank you! I'm new here and it's a bit hard to get all the P's--Stolbovsky (talk) 15:40, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
- But in description of statement is subject of (P805) said that is should be used as "qualifier only", and it seems maybe there should be another P for my case? Or better not to use anything at all?

--Stolbovsky (talk) 16:02, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #226

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

Events/Press/Blogs
- Upcoming: Keynote by Lydia Pintscher at DBpedia conference, September 15th, Leipzig.
- Upcoming: Wikidata workshop for beginners, September 16, Paris
- Upcoming: Semantic MediaWiki Conference, September 28-30, Frankfurt
- Upcoming: Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing) & Liam Wyatt (User:Wittylama) speaking about GLAM-Wiki (including Wikidata) in Warsaw, 19 October. Details tbc.
- Upcoming: Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing) speaking & running workshop about Wikidata at SFK 16 ("Software Freedom Kosova Conference") in Pristina, 21-23 October.
- Research on WikiProject Knowledge Organization Systems presented at 15th NKOS workshop at TPDL: Classification of Knowledge Organization Systems with Wikidata: Presentation and Paper.
- Being a Volunteer Developer for Wikimedia projects: An Interview with Tpt
- Sunday Query: The 200 Oldest Living French Actresses, query tutorial by Harmonia Amanda
- How to prototype Wikidata entities (in French) by Poulpy

Other Noteworthy Stuff
- We have new graphic material to present Wikidata. Feel free to use these files in your slides/talks/documents :)
- #SundayQuery on Twitter: every Sunday, you can ask for help or advice about SPARQL queries, how to build or fix it, some SPARQL-ninjas will be there to answer you!
- Researcher? You can participate in the WSDM Cup 2017 challenge and improve Wikidata vandalism detection
- How to build a query by Pigsonthewing
- Wikipedia gets Map links and Geoshapes service using Wikidata

Did you know?
- Newest properties: Scottish Charity number, Rock Hall of Fame ID, has grammatical mood, Minnesota legislator ID, UGent Memorialis id, enclosure, event distance, Australian Classification, Runeberg book ID, Runeberg author ID, Crossref funder ID, Findsmiley ID, iNaturalist taxon ID, birthday, molecule conformation, repeals, United States Reports ID, CiNetMag person ID, YouTheater ID, elFilm person ID, elFilm film ID, EDb person ID, EDb film ID, SourehCinema person ID, SourehCinema film ID, OFDb ID
- Query examples:
- New templates: {{Denmark properties}}, {{Greece properties}}. Please add labels in your own languages, and consider making a similar template for your country or region.

Development
- Lowered relevance threshold for ArticlePlaceholder search results from 3 to 2 sitelinks (T144188)
- Added 'otk' as an available language for monolingual text values (T137809)
- Working on making it possible to paste partial URLs into the site selector (T144310)
- A Grafana board now tracks general usage and error metrics of the Query Service UI
- Made progress on showing editors on all Wikimedia projects which articles on their project use data from a given Wikidata item. We will also show in the page information (action=info) which items a given article uses. Also worked on showing which projects use a given item in the page information. (T103091)
- Added meta information to the html header of item pages (T88475)
- Made progress on making ArticlePlaceholders indexable for search engines (T144590)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

Monthly Tasks
- Hack on one of these.
- Help develop the next summary here!
- Contribute to a Showcase item
- Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
- Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
- Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
- Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 10:17, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Merge request for Ancestry.com

Would someone please merge two items for Ancestry.com, Ancestry.com Inc. (Q4752572) and Ancestry.com Inc. (Q20643965). The former is linked to a few Wikipedia articles, the latter is not. Both appear to be describing the business enterprise rather than the website. Jc3s5h (talk) 12:08, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Merged Brantgurga (talk) 13:58, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

A bit confusing. I made a new item for the website: Q26878196. There is also one for the software: Q10818272.
--- Jura 14:02, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Open call for Project Grants

Greetings! The Project Grants program is accepting proposals from September 12 to October 11 to fund new tools, research, offline outreach (including editathon series, workshops, etc), online organizing (including contests), and other experiments that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers. Project Grants can support you and your team’s project development time in addition to project expenses such as materials, travel, and rental space.

Submit a grant request or draft your proposal in IdeaLab
Get help with your proposal in an upcoming Hangout session
Learn from examples of completed Individual Engagement Grants or Project and Event Grants

Also accepting candidates to join the Project Grants Committee through October 1.

With thanks, I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 14:49, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Label language: How to fallback to ANY language?

This shows labels in English, and falls back to Russian if no English is available:

   SERVICE wikibase:label {
    bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en, ru" .
   }

QUESTION: How to fall back to ANY language?

I could list all Wikidata languages ("en, ru, ... hundreds of languages ..."), but that would be verbose and hard to maintain. Is there a more elegant solution?

Context: My app displays local monuments around you with a picture/name/map. Users have no idea what Wikidata is, so showing "ハチ公" or "ගල් විහාරය" is much better than showing "Q435398568", even if their phone is not set to these languages. Since the app is mostly used by locals and Wikidata usually has labels in the local language, even languages I have never heard of are often actually providing value to the users. Thanks! Syced (talk) 09:51, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding, that I also wanted to have something like that. This seems to be working:

SELECT ?item (SAMPLE(?item_label) as ?label) WHERE {
 ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q11344 .
 optional {?item rdfs:label ?item_label} .
}
group by ?item

Try it!

It should also return items, which doesn't have any label. --Edgars2007 (talk) 11:05, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Sorry I should have been more explicit. What I want is to fallback to any language. In this case, I want English, but if English is not available then fallback to any language. Is there a trick to do that? Thanks a lot! :-) Syced (talk) 13:59, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

I do usually read things as I want to read it, not how they are written. But no, nothing comes to my mind currently. --Edgars2007 (talk) 16:49, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

You can try COALESCE function. If you want to use Label Service, you could try something like SELECT ?item (IF(REGEX(?itemLabel, "^Q\d+$"), ?itemLabel, ?any_label) as ?label) with nested select statement, but I guess it would be easier to select between ?itemLabel and ?any_label in your application logic.

SELECT ?item (SAMPLE(coalesce(?en_label, ?item_label)) as ?label) WHERE {
  ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q22674925 .
  optional {?item rdfs:label ?en_label . filter(LANG(?en_label) = "en")}
  optional {?item rdfs:label ?item_label}
} group by ?item

Try it!

--Lockal (talk) 09:10, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

This was looks nice. Thanks, Lockal! --Edgars2007 (talk) 09:18, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

That works great, thanks :-) Syced (talk) 06:22, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Lua help needed

Please see Template talk:Url to diff#Not working. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:55, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Done, it was required to change the expected host name to www.wikdata.org in the Lua module (Special:Diff/376205773). Cheers, Hoo man (talk) 22:44, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Perhaps we should also import en:Template:Lua? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:50, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Doubt, petscan, n00b

Hi! How could I get a command list box after running a query in Petscan? After clicking other people's queries it always appears the green box, but when I use petscan and run a "personal query" it delivers only the results (not the box) and I have to export them to autolist, for example. Strakhov (talk) 10:51, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Strakhov: Please give us some example of your personal query (the Petscan ID link). Then we can give a better answer :) --Edgars2007 (talk) 11:01, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Edgars2007: For example. "Castles in Andalusia" in es.wikipedia that don't have item castle (Q23413) in Wikidata. I don't get the box. I export the results in format PagePile to Autolist2, adding instance of (P31) -> castle (Q23413). I want to do that directly from Petscan. :( Strakhov (talk) 11:10, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

You have to tick "Wikidata" in "Use wiki" (Other sources tab). And be careful with "Q23413" at uses items/props. There may be cases, when quering only for that may cause problems. --Edgars2007 (talk) 11:13, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

You need to login first.
--- Jura 11:03, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

And if the button to login doesn't appear, be sure to have "Use wiki" under "Other souces" to be set to Wikidata. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 11:11, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! I finally made it with Sjoerddebruin&Edgars2007's suggestion. Strakhov (talk) 11:15, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for info ! I had the same problem and could not solve it :)) --Hsarrazin (talk) 19:02, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

With this "use wiki"->"Wikidata" feature... is it possible showing different language labels, not the English ones (often most of them do not exist), in the list of results? Strakhov (talk) 12:12, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Tab "Wikidata" > "Label language". Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 12:14, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! It worked great! Strakhov (talk) 17:57, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Gregorian date flag and SPARQL

I have been involved in a discussion on my User talk about Julian and Gregorian dates, in the flag raised from time codes. To carry out widespread checks on these flags, one would need a specialised SPARQL query, which could be applied with various side conditions (e.g. dates in an interval, country, sourcing).

So, has anyone figured out how to query on Julian/Gregorian?

Charles Matthews (talk) 09:29, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Try the "before year 1 query" on property talk pages. You can change the date range. All dates on WQS are Gregorian.
--- Jura 09:36, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
to query on calendar, use wikibase:timeCalendarModel. For example, the following query returns all birth dates after 1930 using the Julian calendar

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?birth where{
  ?item p:P569/psv:P569 ?node .
  ?node wikibase:timeValue ?birth .
  FILTER(YEAR(?birth) > 1930)
  ?node wikibase:timeCalendarModel wd:Q1985786
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" }
}

Try it!

--Pasleim (talk) 09:54, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Creation of properties

Hi all!

This properties have only positive opinion and requested 11 days ago. It's possible to create?

Thank you, Tubezlob (🙋) 10:34, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunantely, there are much more ready properties that have waited more than 11 days than these four, so you'll have to wait. Or property creators will have some bigger activity. Maybe property-edit-a-thon ;) No need to shout at me, that property creation is serious process, I know that, guys. --Edgars2007 (talk) 10:41, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

There's some backlog but a lot of the items that exist aren't as uncontroverisal and these. As I wrote above I think it would be helpful for the purpose of property creation to have a list that lists all properties that are ready. ChristianKl (talk) 11:14, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

And as I said, there is a category. But maybe Pasleim can add this info at Wikidata:Property proposal/Overview? --Edgars2007 (talk) 11:18, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Using the category still takes more effort than having a straight list, the way properties are currently listed. If there an intention of having faster approval, than it makes sense to make the task easier. ChristianKl (talk) 11:43, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I created them in a barebones form. For most of them the formatter id's/ source websites / examples have still to be entered as statements. ChristianKl (talk) 11:05, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I think the proposer can complete them. If the proposal was complete, just make sure to copy it the property talk page.
--- Jura 11:40, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I copied it and put in instance of (P31). ChristianKl (talk) 11:48, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata:Property_proposal/Overview is the best starting point. Just start from the below. The ready flag can be misleading and doesn't discharge you from assessing it yourself.
If there are some item-datatype properties that are urgently needed, feel free to ping me.
--- Jura 11:40, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

The ready flag can be misleading but most people that are ready and where the proposer cares about the property are likely flagged as ready. I have to look through less properties if there's a filter for ready proposals. Removing the `ready` flag in turn can signal that a proposal still needs more input. ChristianKl (talk) 11:47, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! I had no idea that's a long time to create properties, sorry… Tubezlob (🙋) 16:38, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Importing national heritage registers into Wikidata

Hi all

I'm working on the Connected Open Heritage project which plans to upload national built heritage registers to Wikidata (these are often the lists that WLM is based upon in each country). The first step is to create a worldwide list of built heritage registers on Wikipedia, we would really like your help in completing this list with your local knowledge. It should only take a few minutes to fill the information in for each country if you know who produces the information.

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 12:54, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

YouTube user name vs. channel ID

I think this is a better way of recording a YouTube user name - using ~~website account on (P553)~~ website username or ID (P554) as a qualifier for YouTube channel ID (P2397). Can anyone see any issues with that? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:47, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely not, usernames are not unique on YouTube. --Thibaut120094 (talk) 06:28, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

@Thibaut120094: That - if true, evidence, please - seems orthogonal to my question. We currently record usernames using website account on (P553)/website username or ID (P554). How does your assertion make my proposal less correct? (Note correction in my original post.) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:44, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Squid gadget or tool ?

Hi,

Is there a tool, or gadget, that can be activated like the one for Reasonator, that would create a link to the Squid page of any item ? --Hsarrazin (talk) 19:05, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Just for test, add

mw.loader.load( '//www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User:ValterVB/Sqid.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript', 'text/javascript' );

in your commons.js It add a new entry in tool menu called SQID. It work but probably it's necessary some adjustment. --ValterVB (talk) 19:54, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

how to connect Hindi and English?

how to connect these ??

getting this error - The link hiwiki:पेपे मेंढक is already used by item Q26900030. You may remove it from Q26900030 if it does not belong there or merge the items if they are about the exact same topic.

plz help -- – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.53.98.129 (talk • contribs) at 04:00, 16 September 2016 (UTC).

I

Merged their items. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:39, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Review tool to watch damaging edits

Hello all,

Do you know the ORES review tool? This extension uses machine learning to evaluate and rate the edits, in order to flag the ones which are possibly damaging edits.

Once you enable ORES in your beta features preferences, you will see a red r in the recent changes and your watchlist, and you will be able to spot and review the doubtful edits more easily.

You can read more about the review tool and ORES, don't hesitate to ask @Ladsgroup: if you have any question about it :) Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Q25223194 + Q11105308

Can we merge these two items regarding the nuki, a Japanese carpentry joint? I tried to read Help:Merge, but I can't understand it. Please help. Ingafube (talk) 09:37, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

The important part is Help:Merge#Gadget (or Help:Merge/ja#.E3.82.AC.E3.82.B8.E3.82.A7.E3.83.83.E3.83.88). It took me some time to figure it out, but given the number of items that need to be merged, it's worth the time.
--- Jura 09:56, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
@Ingafube: Done by me. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:04, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you @Liuxinyu970226:!Ingafube (talk) 13:46, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Help with merging?

I'd like to merge Q26267195 into Q15982611, but I get an error. Can somebody help? -Pete F (talk) 00:45, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Both items had a sitelink on wikisource, but the first sitelink was a redirect to the second, so I removed it, and merged the items. Silverfish (talk) 01:03, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Let's move forward with support for Wiktionary

Hey everyone :)

Wiktionary is our third-largest sister project, both in term of active editors and readers. It is a unique resource, with the goal to provide a dictionary for every language, in every language. Since the beginning of Wikidata but increasingly over the past months I have been getting more and more requests for supporting Wiktionary and lexicographical data in Wikidata. Having this data available openly and freely licensed would be a major step forward in automated translation, text analysis, text generation and much more. It will enable and ease research. And most importantly it will enable the individual Wiktionary communities to work more closely together and benefit from each other’s work.

With this and the increased demand to support Wikimedia Commons with Wikidata, we have looked at the bigger picture and our options. I am seeing a lot of overlap in the work we need to do to support Wiktionary and Commons. I am also seeing increasing pressure to store lexicographical data in existing items (which would be bad for many reasons).

Because of this we will start implementing support for Wiktionary in parallel to Commons based on our annual plan and quarterly plans. We contacted several of our partners in order to get funding for this additional work. I am happy that Google agreed to provide funding (restricted to work on Wikidata). With this we can reorganize our team and set up one part of the team to continue working on building out the core of Wikidata and support for Wikipedia and Commons and the other part will concentrate on Wiktionary. (To support and to extend our work around Wikidata with the help of external funding sources was our plan in our annual plan 2016.)

As a next step I’d like us all to have another careful look at the latest proposal. It has been online for input in its current form for a year and the first version is 3 years old now. So I am confident that the proposal is in a good shape to start implementation. However I’d like to do a last round of feedback with you all to make sure the concept really is sane. To make it easier to understand there is now also a pdf explaining the concept in a slightly different way. Please do go ahead and review it. If you have comments or questions please leave them on the talk page of the latest proposal. I’d be especially interested in feedback from editors who are familiar with both Wiktionary and Wikidata.

Getting support for Wiktionary done - just like for Commons - will take some time but I am really excited about the opportunities it will open up especially for languages that have so far not gotten much or any technological support.

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 13:17, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

It's great to see Google providing funding to support the project.

I think the concept in of having separate items in the L and S namespace sounds good. Currently I'm not sure how items in the S namespace are supposed to relate to each other and relate with other languages. I would like wireframes of those interactions. How do I express that a sense of the German word "gehen" is equivalent to the sense of the English word "to go"? Is the American English word "to go" the same item in the L-namespace as the British English word "to go"?

It might be valuable to have a feature that allow entering of direct translations for glosses of a sense.

How are the items in the Q-namespace linked to those two namespaces? Wireframes could also be helpful to understand this better.

I think it would be great if we could get rid of the taxon synonym (P1420), basionym (P566) and replaced synonym (for nom. nov.) (P694) would be made by the Wiktionary integration.

How do terms from controlled vocabularies like OBO relate to this effort? ChristianKl (talk) 16:38, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

I'll try to get more mockups of examples. Good point. Controlled vocabularies would probably be linked in statements in the appropriate level. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 09:44, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I forgot pointing to mockups from non-European languages. It might be a good idea to do mockups for concepts in many languages and ask in their respective Wikidictionary projects whether they see any issues.

Any reaon why you want to get rid of taxon synonym (P1420), basionym (P566) and replaced synonym (for nom. nov.) (P694), ChristianKl? --Succu (talk) 19:27, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

If concept A has name X and name Y, X is called a synonym of Y. Wikidata items are supposed to be about concepts and not about the names of the concepts. As such it doesn't make sense to have properties about semantic relations like synonyms because it's a relationship between the names or words and not one about the underlying concept. Items in the L and S-namespace however can have synonym relationships and other sematic relationships. ChristianKl (talk) 19:58, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

These properties are intend to model taxon concepts and not a linguistic synonym (Q42106). --Succu (talk) 20:08, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Let's go! While I think Wikipedia works well with freetext, lists and infoboxes, I never really understood why Wiktionary would attempt to do that in freetext ..
--- Jura 08:18, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

The main point that came up so far seems to be the license incompatibility. It's discussed at Wikidata_talk:Wiktionary#CC0_and_CC_BY-SA rather than the page mentioned above. This will likely result in a separate installation for Wiktionary-Wikibase (to retain license), even if functionality would essentially be the same.
--- Jura 22:31, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

The license incompatibility is not much of a problem because the data is quite distinct. Data in Wikidata is different from Wiktionary. Any lexicographic data in Wikidata will be completely differently represented. The same data exists in many places and is part of the language involved. Claiming copyright on any specific data is not realistic. Copyright on the database is not realistic either. So who is going to claim copyright and gets away with it? Thanks, GerardM (talk) 07:08, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

main theme or subject for a human

Which property would you use to state the main themes or subjects a human worked on? We have it for works - main subject (P921) - but it is specifically for works: is there one fitting humans? For instance, I would like to be able to state:

Zorglub27 (talk) 13:48, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

We do have field of work (P101) --YMS (talk) 14:35, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

How about starting with sources that make claims? Which sources do you want to quote for the thinks you claim here? ChristianKl (talk) 17:03, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

It does not make sense to have a "main theme". People can have multiple careers and it is the context that determines the main theme of a subject. What does make sense is to sort attributes by theme. For instance, when someone had a sporting and a political career, he can receive awards for either and you would expect the awardees that are associated with an award to be about that theme.

When themes are to be part of Wikidata, we would consider presentation of the information. This is something we are not ready for. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 06:03, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Don't simplify a person to one working subject. The best is to set a list of subject to each work of a person and at the end to collect all subjects to see if there is a pattern in his works. Snipre (talk) 06:49, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't look fitting to reduce a human to one theme. Humans are usually more complex :). Let's leave theme/subject for works and for humans use one of the notability properties. Also, Karl Marx probably won't be happy to have "capitalism" called as his main theme :) --Laboramus (talk) 19:11, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

That make sense, thank you for your answers :) - Zorglub27 (talk) 07:02, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

VIAF question

I found a page that relates to James Robert Cardwell (Q26906504), correctly listing some of his written works and his date of death. It seems to list a VIAF identifier in the URL: http://www.worldcat.org/identities/viaf-105348839/

However, when I added that number to Wikidata, it seemed to link a different James Robert Cardwell. Any ideas what's going on? -Pete F (talk) 20:38, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

The version at https://viaf.org is the correct one. Oddly, it doesn't seem to have changed recently. You'd need to contact at WorldCat.
--- Jura 17:57, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

copy pasting source pages

Hi,

If I have a source I use for several properties, is their a quick way of copying it from one prperty to another? Copying all the details (e.g. reference URL (P854), title (P1476) , retrieved (P813) , original language of film or TV show (P364)) again and again is a bit tedious. DGtal (talk) 07:09, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

There is a gadget called DuplicateReferences which has recently been broken and not yet fixed. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 07:24, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, DGtal (talk) 07:30, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Which property for a waterfalls relationship to a river

Should it be located in/on physical feature (P706) or part of (P361)? --Bamyers99 (talk) 21:01, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

"Part of" makes more sense, I think - waterfalls, weirs, rapids, and so on are all a part of the river itself, while islands and bridges are "located on". Andrew Gray (talk) 21:53, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't think that man-made structures (weirs, dams, locks) should be "part of". Bridges and tunnels use crosses (P177). --Bamyers99 (talk) 22:04, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree locks, dams and weirs on natural rivers should use located in/on physical feature (P706), but part of (P361) on canals. Thryduulf (talk) 23:12, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

It also exists lake on watercourse (P469) but it's only for lakes and reservoirs. I don't know if its scope is potentially expandable to lakes, reservoirs and ...waterfalls? They are all made of water! Strakhov (talk) 23:37, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't agree with using separate properties for canals. It makes it more complicated to enter and use the data - you have to know whether the waterway is artificial or not to know which property to use, even though there's no difference that I'm aware of between a dam, lock, etc on a natural waterway and one on a human-created waterway. I don't see why located in/on physical feature (P706) shouldn't also be used for artificially created terrain features (whether that's islands, mountains, waterways, lakes or whatever). It should be possible to use P31 to restrict a query to exclude artificially created features if someone wants to do that. - Nikki (talk) 12:14, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I think that locks, waterfalls (including the man-made ones...), weirs, and dams should all generally use part of (P361) - because the majority, or at least a significant part, of the water of the river/waterway/canal flows through these items, and they have a significant impact on the flow/ecology/use etc of the waterway. I think that creating a distinction between "natural" rivers and canals is fraught with danger - if you build a lock on a "natural" river it really becomes a navigable river or a waterway. There are also many waterways that are part river and part canal (for example the Kennet and Avon Canal (Q1412795) which is one part river with locks, one part canal with locks, and one part tidal river with locks). And the reverse property for the river/waterway/canal would be has part(s) (P527).

I'd generally agree that bridges and tunnels should use crosses (P177), but some were built, or are owned or maintained by the waterway, in which case, perhaps they should use part of (P361)? But of course any aqueduct (Q474) that carries the waterway should be part of the waterway, and would probaby use crosses (P177) (a road, valley, river etc). Robevans123 (talk) 00:39, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't seem right to me. The bridge still crosses the river regardless of who built, owns or maintains it. There are other properties for saying those things, e.g owned by (P127) and maintained by (P126). Not sure which is most appropriate for who built it, but there's at least creator (P170) and manufacturer (P176). I would probably only use part of (P361) if the river flows across a bridge (an aqueduct I guess). - Nikki (talk) 11:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I think what I was trying to say is that a bridge can be an integral part of, say a canal. A canal is usually more than just a stretch of water, it is, or was, some sort of economic enterprise such as a limited or private company which includes various assets such as bridges, pumping stations, warehouses, offices etc, which, while not directly part of the body of flowing water, are part of (P361) the whole enterprise of the canal, and are, or were, integral parts of its operation and maintenance requirements.

Perhaps in an ideal world, the waterway itself would be separated from the managing companies. For example, the Kennet and Avon Canal (Q1412795) was built, owned, and operated by the Kennet and Avon Canal Company, bought by the Great Western Railway (who tried to close it), taken over by the British Transport Commission, then British Waterways, restored, with help from the Kennet and Avon Canal Trust, and its now owned and maintained by the Canal & River Trust, with help from Kennet and Avon Canal Trust which aim to protect, enhance and promote the canal. Messy, isn't it....? Robevans123 (talk) 12:55, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Which is just a (long-winded!) way of saying that, under certain circumstance. a bridge could both cross a canal, and be part of the same canal. Robevans123 (talk) 13:48, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Given that located in/on physical feature (P706) is a subproperty of part of (P361) I would use located in/on physical feature (P706). ChristianKl (talk) 17:10, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Tunnels and aqueducts that are used by waterway users should (additionally?) use carries (P2505) I think. Thryduulf (talk) 01:05, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Agree with additionally carries (P2505) (with part of (P361)) for aqueducts and tunnels. Opens up the way for a range of queries (cf my bridges blurb above). Robevans123 (talk) 13:48, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

connecting line (P81)? Basically interconnected geographical nodes? --Succu (talk) 21:10, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

"Part of" makes the most sense to me. In English, the word "terrain" carries the connotation of land, not water. Kaldari (talk) 02:27, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

The English description of located in/on physical feature (P706) explicitly includes water. If you think the label is too inaccurate, perhaps you can think of a better one? (It's difficult to find perfect labels, there are lots of grey areas and people will not always have the same connotations... e.g. I agree that terrain implies land, but I would still say a river is a feature on the terrain). - Nikki (talk) 11:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

located in/on physical feature (P706)'s description is probably wrong since the Wikidata item of this property (P1629) is landform (Q271669) - which is definitely solid. Probably better to use located in or next to body of water (P206) (since the Wikidata item of this property (P1629) is body of water (Q15324)). @ChristianKl: - located in or next to body of water (P206) is a subproperty of location (P276) only, so should only be used for items that are next to the body of water, but not part of it. Robevans123 (talk) 21:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Strakhov made watercourse (Q355304) a subclass of landform (Q271669) 2 days before I started this thread. Does the definition of a river include the riverbed? If so, then a river is a terrain feature. Same question can be asked for a lake and its lake bed. --Bamyers99 (talk) 22:27, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

In my language (Spanish (Q1321)) landform (Q271669) is "accidente geográfico" (pt: Acidente geográfico, ca: Accident geogràfic, gl: Accidente xeográfico, oc: Formacion geografica, eu: Forma geografiko), and, of course, rivers and lakes are "accidentes geográficos". But if this damages something, concepts can be splitted or my edit undone. Strakhov (talk) 22:42, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Related stuff. Reservoirs (water) and dams (concrete) should be splitted in two items: dam and reservoir. Shouldn't they? If that's true... the proper property linking a reservoir with its dam would be...? located in/on physical feature (P706) too? part of (P361)? Strakhov (talk) 18:15, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Daníela and Danielle

I'm really not active here, so I'm not at all sure how to accomplish my goal here.

Q1163840 is an entry for disambiguation pages, but w:en:Danielle, which is linked to it, is more a list of people named Danielle than a disambiguation page. Does this en:wp page belong at this item, or should it be moved to a different item? Moreover, Q1096053 is an entry for "Daníela". At en:wp, "Daniela" is a redirect to "Danielle", but there's also a w:en:Daniela (disambiguation) page, which would seem to belong at Q1096053. For one thing, would it be appropriate to implement my suggestions, and secondly, what should be done (from a technical perspective, not a policy perspective) to implement them? Nyttend (talk) 02:24, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Done Moved sitelink to Danielle (Q18040452) --ValterVB (talk) 06:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

P969 (P969)

I think the property P969 (P969) should ask for "language" the same way official name (P1448) does for example. I don't know where to make that request or how to make that change. Thanks, Amqui (talk) 17:05, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

You cannot! You have to propose a replacement of this property to a new property with the right datatype and thereafter migrate to the new property. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 17:56, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

And where do I propose that? Amqui (talk) 22:49, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

One way to get attention is probably to start a discussion at Wikidata:Properties for deletion to find consensus for such a migration and if the discussion goes in the right direction, go to Wikidata:Property proposal/Place to propose the new property. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 04:57, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

So you first ask for the destruction of data and then ask for a new property? Extremely weird! Thanks, GerardM (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Done, see Wikidata:Properties for deletion#located at street address (P969). Thanks, Amqui (talk) 15:04, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Apparently, a new property needs to be created before the old deleted, see Wikidata:Property proposal/located at street address. Thanks, Amqui (talk) 16:47, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Now we have discussions everywhere, based on unsubstantiated comments, why don't finish a discussion on the talk page of the current property? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 16:50, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

What we really need is a clear procedure on "how to change a property" written somewhere in the help pages, everybody points in different directions. Amqui (talk) 16:53, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

In the past when we decided to change the datatype of P513 (P513) etc. we discussed it on Wikidata:Properties for deletion. After consensus was reached, the new properties were created without anothor discussion and the data migration could start. --Pasleim (talk) 17:46, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #227

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

Discussions
- We're starting working on lexicographical data! Please read the proposal and give us your feedback :)
- New request for comments: Merging male and female labels

Events/Press/Blogs
- Upcoming: State of the map, September 23 - 25, Brussels
- Next Wikidata office hour: Tuesday September 27th, from 18:00 to 19:00 (Berlin time, UTC+2), in #wikimedia-office
- Video of a SPARQL workshop (& materials) organized by Wikimedia Foundation's Discovery and Research teams
- Slides of Lydia's keynote about Wikidata at the DBpedia conference 2016
- Slides of Andreas Thalhammer about Unified PageRank for DBpedia and Wikidata
- #SundayQuery: ask for help on queries every Sunday on Twitter! This week, a tutorial about surnames by Harmonia Amanda, and how to use SPARQL and Python to fix typographical errors by Ash Crow

Other Noteworthy Stuff

- The Project Grants program is accepting proposals from September 12 to October 11 to fund new tools, research, offline outreach, online organizing and other experiments that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers.
- The RevisionSlider is now available as a beta feature, try it to have a visual overview of your diffs.
- You can also activate ORES the review tool to watch damaging edits more easily!
- There's an infographic on the quality process in Wikidata you can use and edit.
- You can also use and translate this new datamodel representation.
- How to fix taxon common names with Pywikibot, tutorial by TweetsFactsAndQueries and Tobias1984.

Did you know?
- Newest properties: Visual Novel Database ID, territory overlaps, Zaragoza monument ID, Patrimonio Web JCyL ID, uses property, Statoids ID, art director, offers view on, World Bridge Federation ID, Olympic.org ID, Cultural Heritage Armenia ID, Harasire ID, Sporthorse data ID, Allbreedpedigree ID, Webpedigrees ID, Horsetelex ID
- Query examples:
- Newest database reports: list of embassies

Development
- We're working on entity usage on Wikimedia projects, check our different features
- The Wikidata team attended and participated to a lot of conference these past days (WikiCon, ViewSource, DPpedia, SoCraTes, Write the doc) that's why we don't have many tasks to share with you this week :)

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here.

Monthly Tasks
- Hack on one of these.
- Help develop the next summary here!
- Contribute to a Showcase item
- Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
- Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
- Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
- Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 16:05, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Badge search

Hi, do we have any special pages or tools to search for badges stored on Wikidata? I think we had but I can't find. --Stryn (talk) 16:19, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I have seen one in the clients, but I cannot find it now. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 16:24, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

One way is described here: Wikidata:Request a query#Total number of featured articles (replace wd:Q17437796 with [] if you want to work with other type of badges, too). And w:fi:Special:PagesWithBadges. --Edgars2007 (talk) 16:34, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! So now I will just compare the articles at fi:Luokka:Hyvät artikkelit and Special:PagesWithBadges (Q17437798) to make sure Wikidata is up to date. I hope PetScan could show badges, would be faster to compare between Wikipedia and Wikidata. --Stryn (talk) 17:54, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Query returns 0 pages, which is wrong, right (363-362=1)? --Edgars2007 (talk) 18:12, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

This is due a bug Phab:T85527. --Stryn (talk) 18:15, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

accessed using this service

I've just found that via (P2825) is being used as a qualifier to full work available at URL (P953) to indicate "accessed using this service" (e.g Google Books, Internet Archive) rather than the property's intended meaning "intermediate point on a journey". See e.g. A topographical dictionary of Wales (Volume I) (Q25219289). Normally I would just fix this sort of thing, but I don't know what the correct property to express this relationship is - if one exists? Thryduulf (talk) 23:05, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I think that was me! I can't remember if I was "testing the limits", or whether it just seemed correct for the purpose at the time.

I was definitely using it to match the | via = parameter for the cite book template on the english Wikipedia where it's used to acknowledge that the edition of book has been scanned and released by a third party.

I had a look at WikiProject Books (which has an excellent list of properties to be used with books), but couldn't find anything appropriate. I'll leave a message there to see if anyone has ideas.

I do think it is a useful property to have but I don't know if via (P2825) or a new or existing property would be best. Robevans123 (talk) 12:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree that a property to express that relationship is something we should have, but via (P2825) isn't it in my opinion so I'd support a new one if there isn't something already lurking about. Thryduulf (talk) 17:30, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree. I went back and looked at the cite book template to see how | via = was defined, and its for specifying the "content deliverer", which seems like a possible property.

I then checked what other parameters used in the template needed possible Wikidata properties, and it's quite well covered with author/editor/contributor/publisher/printer etc, and many of the standard identifiers (ISBN, OCLC etc) are also well covered.

After searching around a bit more I found distributed by (P750) (a distributor of a creative work) which might be a possibility. The discussion page implies it's mainly intended for film distribution, be it also seems quite good for content deliverers such as Google Books and Internet Archive. Robevans123 (talk) 19:28, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

"Content deliverer" is not a bad name, but I'm not sure about using distributed by (P750) - I'm leaning towards a separate property, but I've left a message on the property talk page and am alerting the Movies project to try and get additional input here. Thryduulf (talk) 09:20, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject Movies has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. Thryduulf (talk) 09:20, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Robevans123: well, my attempts at gaining more input have completely failed so far. If there are no more comments in the next couple of days I will move this forward with a property proposal for "content deliverer". Thryduulf (talk) 13:23, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

@Thryduulf:Yes - I'd been thinking that it's better to have a separate new property. "Content provider" is quite well defined (from a google search), and although I started on this to cover | via = I think it would be a really useful property for any sort of creative work that is digitally available, and for most people searching for content, much more useful than knowing the printer or publisher. Will support your proposal! Robevans123 (talk) 13:35, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

@Robevans123: proposal now started at Wikidata:Property proposal/content deliverer, it was harder to describe than I initially thought so it may need tweaking and/or questions answering. Thryduulf (talk) 15:40, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Multilingual property label help needed

vessel (P1876) has been modified to be used for not just spacecraft, but all vessels (e.g. ships). I've changed the English label and description; but the same needs to be done in other languages. Please help. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:19, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Help for this? What's wrong? --Succu (talk) 22:43, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

This doesn't look like consensus to me, changing the scope based on one suggestion and without informing the people who proposed the property back then. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 05:28, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I think it would be worthwhile to have a more formal process for scope changes of properties. ChristianKl (talk) 10:49, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Tinyurl blacklisted

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T112715

I wanted to create a link to a query I created on my user page using the tinyurl.com link that the [3] suggests. However, tinyurl.com is at the same time blacklisted, so I cannot save the page. Is there another simple way to link to a query? --Shikeishu (talk) 01:09, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

just copy the whole URL from the address bar. --Pasleim (talk) 09:50, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't work if the URL includes spaces. --Shikeishu (talk) 10:30, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

How so? [4] Matěj Suchánek (talk) 12:26, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

And by the way, some users do it like: tinyurl.com/hk3rdfc. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 12:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

If the query includes spaces, Chrome and InternetExplorer directly replace spaces by %20 in the URL. Firefox is showing spaces in the address bar but when you copy paste the URL the spaces are also replaced by %20. I think other browsers are handling it similar. --Pasleim (talk) 13:07, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! Not sure why that didn't work yesterday. --Shikeishu (talk) 13:43, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

It is a bit inconvenient to have tinyurl.com shortener at query page and do not have possibility to use it here. I can agree with blacklisting tinyurl.com at main (and Property) namespace, but do we really need to blacklist other namespaces (like Talk, Wikidata) as well? Is the namescapce specific blacklisting possible?--Jklamo (talk) 15:06, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Tinyurl is blocked because it allows to link to blacklisted sites or sites that contain viruses. This can happen in all namespaces. --Pasleim (talk) 15:51, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

See Phabricator:T112715. Thryduulf (talk) 17:21, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Topics of conflicts

I would like to start mapping conflicts around the construction of hydropower plants (similar to this one). I am uncertain about which property to use in order to link a conflict to hydropower (Q170196) though (e.g. Occupation of the Hainburger Au (Q829823)). Thanks for your support! --Shikeishu (talk) 02:08, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

seems like a case for main subject (P921) but applied to an event instead of a creative work? Otherwise I don't see something applicable... ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I thought about using that one as well. I started a discussion on the property's discussion page. Thanks for your opinion! --Shikeishu (talk) 21:59, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Identifier properties linking to multilingual sources

The Dictionary of Welsh Biography has an external identifier property (P1648) which links to the English version of the website. Ideally we would like to also provide a link the Welsh version of the website, which has separate unique identifiers. Is this possible? would the creation of a separate property for the Welsh language identifier be acceptable? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Jason.nlw (talk) 15:53, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Finnish Ministers database ID (P2182) is another property with the same problem. (Finnish/Swedish/English) There are probably more of such identifiers. One of the modules on svwiki who helps with Wikidata "sv:Modul:Wikidata2" prefer the Swedish url in such cases. (It always prefer a statements that have a "language:Swedish" or "script:Latin alphabet"-qualifier.) This is one reason I do not really see the point of having an identifier datatype. Wikidata became much less flexible with this new datatype. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 16:21, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

if it would make more sense not as an external identifier we could ask to have the datatype switched back to string... ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:56, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

You could reward the database designer with a large brithyll. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:06, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Jason.nlw: quite a few identifiers are multilingual, but the id is the same, for example RKDartists ID (P650) -> 32439 gives you en and I would probably get nl if I wouldn't have my browser set to English. In this case the RKD website handles picking the right language. Are you sure the website doesn't have an entrance like that to point you to cy and me to en? If not, I would use the Finnish Ministers database ID (P2182) approach. Multichill (talk) 18:53, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't know if the website can differentiate. The entry urls for Gerald of Wales (Q357824) are http://yba.llgc.org.uk/cy/c-GIRA-CAM-1146.html (in Welsh) and http://yba.llgc.org.uk/en/s-GIRA-CAM-1146.html (in English). Note that change is /cy/c- to /en/s-. I guess the Finnish Ministers database ID (P2182) approach could be adapted to work if the id was stored as GIRA-CAM-1146 (but the David Lloyd George (Q134982) example also has what looks like a version number as well so you use cy/c2-LLOY-DAV-1863 for the Welsh and en/s2-LLOY-DAV-1863 for the English, so you'd need to use something like -GIRA-CAM-1146, or 2-LLOY-DAV-1863 if there is a version number involved...) Robevans123 (talk) 20:18, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Before formatter URL (P1630), when it was done with a .js, PORT film ID (P905) would take you to your language version based on your int:lang (defaulting to [hu]). It's (sadly) not the case anymore, even if all URLs are still stored, qualified by the languages. See also PORT person ID (P2435). – Máté (talk) 19:20, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thanks everyone. It looks like the Finnish approach would work best, but we would need to adapt the ID's. We are looking to enrich this dataset and are just exploring possibilities. Cheers! Jason.nlw (talk) 08:09, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

References

I have a doubt with the references, the references should not be wikipedia articles, because the project is meant to improve the information in the pages, so it should be an external link so when the people look at the references it should re direct them to the page where it was found not an article. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Salcedo95 (talk • contribs) at 16:26, 19 September 2016‎ (UTC).

Hi, @Salcedo95:. I did not understand you... Are you talking about "references" in Wikidata or Wikipedia? If you talk about references in Wikipedia, articles should use external and reliable sources (Wikipedia is not reliable), but that's related with Wikipedia (Q52) not Wikidata (Q2013).

If you talk about references in Wikidata, yes, references should be external, but that's a long shot for the moment. Strakhov (talk) 18:14, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I was talking for wikidata, because it only gave the option to cite wikipedia articles not external links – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Salcedo95 (talk • contribs) at 23:35, 19 September 2016‎ (UTC).

@Salcedo95: Please sign your comment. Then have a look at help:sources. Snipre (talk) 07:34, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Years/ages units mess

There's kind of a messy situation in units specifying age (there are more messy situations with units but this particular one caught my attention). There is year (Q577), annum (Q1092296) and now there's a new one years old (Q24564698). I think we need to standardize on one of them to use at least in properties concerning age, like minimum age (P2899) or age of majority (P2997). I'd prefer to remove years old (Q24564698) completely and use one of the remaining ones consistently. --Laboramus (talk) 19:10, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

+1 with deletion of years old (Q24564698). And somebody knows the difference between year (Q577) and annum (Q1092296) ? Snipre (talk) 21:11, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

@Laboramus: Annum is simply the Latin word for "year". On the wikis that have separate articles for annum and year, they seem to restrict "annum" to being a Julian year, i.e. exactly 365.25 days, or meaning "year" exclusively in the context of standardized measurements (in which case there is virtually no difference between annum and year). As most countries haven't used the Julian calendar since the 1600s, it would make a lot more sense to standardize on "year" (which covers both historical and modern methods of counting years). I'm sure there are some ~~pedantic~~ conscientious editors out there who would like to use annum for people that lived under a Julian calendar, but this would effectively defeat the purpose of Wikidata, which is to provide useful metadata that can be easily queried. I also support deleting years old (Q24564698). Kaldari (talk) 02:16, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't see an advantage of adding units to human age properties. This especially as QuickStatements doesn't support it.
--- Jura 08:32, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
- There may be ages when months or weeks would be standardly used (like when a vaccine is due, or for a certain stage of human development, or even for some uses of P2899). I really don't think units for human age should be abandoned. – Máté (talk) 09:06, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
- I agree with user:Máté - units are required unless we want values like 0.307692308 year (16 weeks), when e.g. some vaccinations are given[5]. Thryduulf (talk) 10:56, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
I agree, I'd just make these unit-less as units are pretty much implied there if it's age property. But at least if we have units it should be one, not three different ones. --Laboramus (talk) 18:43, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
- @Laboramus: Years are only implied for adults. Ages of children are measured in days, then weeks and then months until years becomes almost (but not quite) exclusive after about 3-4 years old. Similarly ages of foetuses are never measured in units longer than months. Thryduulf (talk) 20:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I can't imagine making a distinction between year and annum when expressing the age of people. I can imagine using the unit Julian year (Q217208) for expressing how long ago events occurred in the distant past, when the Earth rotated significantly more quickly on its axis, so days were significantly shorter than now (or when the Earth hadn't formed yet, so calendars are completely meaningless). Jc3s5h (talk) 12:31, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
Well, I am not sure the calendar-problem in reality is a problem. I mean, the "startdate" for Universe (Q1) is not set to NaN because Sun and Earth and any calendar based on them are irrelevant for that point in time. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 05:04, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
The start date of the universe purports to be in the Gregorian calendar. The references and determination method provide sufficient information to figure out the real meaning, which is 13,798 million Julian years before the present. Using the Gregorian calendar to state this date is like using a chisel as a screwdriver. Jc3s5h (talk) 14:02, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
There's about 9000 meanings of "year" when we're talking about astronomical-scale dates, but with precision we're talking about it doesn't really matter. Let's not get into the woods there, this question is about non-astronomical scales where we have pretty good idea usually which years it is about, we just need to figure out how to record them properly.--Laboramus (*:::talk) 18:54, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Most dates in Wikidata are wrong because of sloppy definition of what a date is. You must consider astronomical time spans. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:01, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Many dates are wrong because the data model for time was not well communicated. Data added by API and through the GUI gave/gives different results. When it comes to dates in Astronomy, at least I have waited for some bug fixes, since Julian dates are neither the Gregorian or the Julian calendar. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 05:56, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

quickstatements syntax problem

Q4115189 P1087 2652 P585 +2016-09-20T00:00:00Z/11 S248 Q23058744 P813 +2016-09-20T00:00:00Z/11

What is the error in this code?

I thought that this code tells quickstatements that Wikidata Sandbox (Q4115189) has Elo rating (P1087) of 2652, it had this elo rating on 20.9.2016 and it is sourced by Go Ratings (Q23058744), which has been reached retrieved (P813) on 20.9.2016.

Thank you for your advice. --Wesalius (talk) 19:48, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Try adding a + before the Élő rating too (+2652). – Máté (talk) 20:11, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Nice, it is almost solved. 1 remaining problem - the retrieved (P813) is now quantifying the Elo rating (P1087) instead of the stated in (P248). How to solve this? --Wesalius (talk) 20:18, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

S813 instead? Matěj Suchánek (talk) 20:40, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Nope, Q4115189 P1087 +2652 P585 +2016-09-20T00:00:00Z/11 S248 Q23058744 S813 +2016-09-20T00:00:00Z/11 did not change a thing. --Wesalius (talk) 20:51, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

I believe this is QuickStatement issue #31 in Magnus' bug list. LaddΩ chat ;) 01:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Hide wikidata

How can we hide the Wikidata of my article from search results on the web? It pops up every time I search for my article. Most articles don't show their Wikidata online only mine. I believe the one I talked to in Wikidata channel is responsible for this. Can you do something about it?-Screamborn (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

What is "your article"? Would you provide the link to the search query where you get that result? Who did you talk to? Matěj Suchánek (talk) 18:07, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

@Screamborn: If you're asking about the sitelinks, just use {{noexternallanglinks}} on that page when needed.

But if you're asking about search engines, there seems that nothing you can do, you need to ask Google, Bing, ... etc. by yourself. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:13, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

FYI Topic:Tbugr1auj56uoac5 Matěj Suchánek (talk) 12:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Also at Wikidata:Contact the development team#Wikidata available for search on the web. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:23, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Surprising request. The Wikidata page shows up in search engines if the search engines rank the page high enough, higher than other pages. So if you compare it with other terms you search for, you will rarely find Wikidata in the Top 10 results, because Wikidata is, as of today, rarely considered a top-ranked site. If the topic is very esoteric, as is the case here, Wikidata can happen to become one of the best results for the given search term according to the ranking of a given search engine. I think everything here is working as intended. --Denny (talk) 21:39, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Denny: Should we use robots.txt (Q80776) in this case? i.e. https://www.wikidata.org/robots.txt --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:55, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there any reason to avoid having Wikidata indexed in search engines if the search engine believes that the user will find the wikidata page valuable. ChristianKl (talk) 10:01, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

I would agree with ChristianKl in this case. In particular languages that do not have much content on the Web in general, and that don't have ArticlePlaceholder set up - or maybe not even a Wikipedia - it would be a shame to withhold the Wikidata page. --Denny (talk) 14:41, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't think non-English pages of Wikidata are currently viewable by users that aren't logged in. ChristianKl (talk) 16:51, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

They do: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42?uselang=hr although that is not perfect. --Denny (talk) 17:18, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Tool for social media

Hi all,

Is there a tool that found in a website identifiers of social medias (Facebook username (P2013), X username (P2002), Instagram username (P2003), Dailymotion channel ID (P2942), etc.)?

Tubezlob (🙋) 10:08, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Your question is not clear enough for me. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 10:13, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Sjoerddebruin: OK sorry. Is there a tool that can search in the source code of a webpage (of a Wikidata item) URLs of social medias (like Facebook or Twitter), and then add them in the Wikidata item? Tubezlob (🙋) 11:10, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tubezlob: So basically - see, if Twitter/Facebook etc. is used as source or qualifier for some statement in that particular Wikidata item? And then add it as Facebook/Twitter profile, if there isn't such already set? If yes, then I don't think so (but it shouldn't be too hard to code it up) and don't think it would be a good idea - you may see Twitter/Facebook links of other profiles in sources. --Edgars2007 (talk) 17:03, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Interwiki links to Wikidata in the sidebar

Is it possible to make an interwiki sidebar link to Wikidata "manually" from another project? It would be like creating a link say to English Wikipedia with [[en:foo]]. The reason I'm asking is that commons:Category:Bay of Islands Coastal Park uses a template to get interlanguage links, but lacks a link to Wikidata in the "Tools" or "In other projects" sections of the sidebar.

I know that the Tools link usually appears as a side-effect of creating a sitelink, but this Commons category (like many others) doesn't have a sitelink, and it seems undesirable to either create a cross-namespace sitelink or to create a Category Wikidata item that wouldn't link to anything else.

If such a method is possible, the template that creates the interwiki links would be also able to create the Wikidata link. Ghouston (talk) 10:01, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@Ghouston: I added the category as the Commons link to Bay of Islands Coastal Park (Q4874208) and that has now generated the "Wikidata item" link in the Tools section at Commons. I am presuming that is the effect that you were seeking. If there is something at Commons then it should be paired to the wikidata item here. That said noting that there is no consensus on whether it should be galleries or categories that are linked to an item, though if there is an overarching category here, then that should be using the Category interlink. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:33, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Oh, and as a addendum, English Wikisource actually does generate a separate wikilink to the wikidata item through s:Template:Plain sister in its headers — if you want an example of how to add something manually. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:37, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, but that's a cross-namespace link from a Commons category to a Wikidata main item, which I've been told here previously is not permitted. I don't want to waste time making such links if they will all be reverted some day. I also know of a template on Commons that can put the wikidata link into the category header (Template:On Wikidata), but that seems a bit intrusive for a link that's likely to be of little use to most people. Ghouston (talk) 05:31, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Ghouston: It is NOT a cross namespace link, such a reference would be internal to a wiki only. There is no main to main relationship across wikis, for instance the wikisources utilise numbers of namespaces to items here as that is how their organisation links to the item here. Whomever told you that it is not permitted hasn't accurately reflected the last discussion that was held here and was closed as "no consensus". So my thoughts to you are to put in the most accurate link, and for the category that you indicated there is only one item. Plus the links won't be reverted, however, they may evolve, but that is a wiki! Never be afraid of progressive change, it is actually our way. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:27, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

The guidance that we have is at Wikidata:Commons and the last discussion about this is at Wikidata:Requests for comment/Commons links. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I remember that discussion, and how it was closed with one outcome, and then an "Addendum 2" was added to say that option VI was to be implemented, which involves templates, which in the meantime have been implemented and which I was trying to use above. That was also explained to me on Wikidata talk:Wikimedia Commons under the "Commons:Category:Raphael Lemkin" heading. However, if that is now all old history, and there's no longer anybody objecting to making a simple sitelinks from Commons Category to Wikidata main items, then I guess I should do that instead, since the end result is better (i.e., including a Wikidata link in the sidebar.) Ghouston (talk) 09:00, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

api.php reply empty via curl/Groovy, non-empty via wget/Firefox

I wrote a Groovy script that at some point runs this request: http://www.wikidata.org/w/api.php?action=wbgetentities&sites=enwiki&titles=Mozambique&format=xml&props=

PROBLEM: It returns an empty reply.

The same query via wget or Firefox works fine. But it is also empty via curl. The Groovy script:

def url = 'http://www.wikidata.org/w/api.php?action=wbgetentities&sites=enwiki&titles=Mozambique&format=xml&props='.toURL()
println url.getText('utf-8')

What is going on? How to make the Groovy script work? Thanks! Syced (talk) 06:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Not sure exactly what is causing your trouble, but I think the issue is there's a redirect involved - 'curl -L' allows this to work for curl, so presumably something similarly is needed for groovy. ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:30, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Time out despite query restricted to tiny area

I want to create a GPX file containing all places missing a Wikidata image. A GPX file can be used by smartphone map apps like OsmAnd without using the Internet, so unlike WikiShootMe this will cost zero roaming money.

The naive query obviously times out, so I thought I would divide the world into small portions and query them one after the other:

SELECT ?item WHERE {
  ?item p:P625 ?statement .
  ?statement psv:P625 ?coordinate_node .
  ?coordinate_node wikibase:geoLatitude ?lat .
  ?coordinate_node wikibase:geoLongitude ?long .
  FILTER (ABS(?lat - 48.8738) < 0.001)
  FILTER (ABS(?long - 2.2950) < 0.001)
  MINUS {?item wdt:P18 ?image}
}

Try it!

PROBLEM: The above query times out, even though the area is only about 100 meters * 100 meters.

Why does it fail? Any other strategy to get all of the data I want? Syced (talk) 07:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

I think it still reads every coordinate. Try mw:Wikidata_query_service/User_Manual#Search_within_box or mw:Wikidata_query_service/User_Manual#Search_around_point instead.
--- Jura 07:56, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Cool, that seems to work:

SELECT
  ?item
  (SAMPLE(COALESCE(?en_label, ?item_label)) as ?label)
  (SAMPLE(?location) as ?location)
WHERE {
  SERVICE wikibase:box {
    ?item wdt:P625 ?location .
    bd:serviceParam wikibase:cornerSouthWest "Point(3 -90)"^^geo:wktLiteral .
    bd:serviceParam wikibase:cornerNorthEast "Point(3.1 90)"^^geo:wktLiteral .
  }
  MINUS {?item wdt:P18 ?image}
  MINUS {?item wdt:P373 ?commonsCat}
  OPTIONAL {?item rdfs:label ?en_label . FILTER(LANG(?en_label) = "en")}
  OPTIONAL {?item rdfs:label ?item_label}
}
GROUP BY ?item

Try it!

Thanks a lot! Syced (talk) 08:46, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Merge Q328829 and Q25089084

How to merge Khadija Mosque (Q328829) and Khadija Mosque (Q25089084)? No idea how to do it. --Ahmadi (talk) 12:38, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Ahmadi See Help:Merge --ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 12:45, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes! I did it!! - I had read the Help:Merge but I missed that I need to activate the Merge tool in my preferences... The rest was easy. --Ahmadi (talk) 16:47, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Languages

Where do Wikidata pull its languages list for the entries that require a language (such as official name or motto text)? I ask because I need to enter a "motto text" in Old French (ISO code "fro"), but it doesn't recognize it. Thanks, Amqui (talk) 14:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

See Help:Monolingual text languages.
--- Jura 15:03, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Amqui (talk) 18:19, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

DuplicateReferences

The Gadget DuplicateReferences doesn't work properly again! I can both copy and paste, but the data isn't saved! -- Innocent bystander (talk) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

I came here to report the same problem. When I paste a reference it says "saving", but apparently doesn't do anything other than print that message to the screen. It stays "saving" until the page is reloaded at which point it becomes clear that no saving has been happening at all. Thryduulf (talk) 13:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

phab:T142203. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 13:10, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Bumping this thread! -- Innocent bystander (talk) 12:47, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I've put it into the current development sprint. I hope the devs get to it asap. Sorry for the breakage. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 09:42, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

The gadget should be working again. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 09:37, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes - it's working. Thanks for fixing it. A most useful tool. Robevans123 (talk) 10:01, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

It's working but not as good as it used to work. If you first copy and then add a claim beforehand you could still paste they reference and now you can't. Given the importance of sources I also don't understand why this is a gadget instead of a core feature. ChristianKl (talk) 10:57, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Yep, reported that yesterday. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 11:41, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia Corpus to Wikidata

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2016/08#Wikipedia_corpus_to_Wikidata

@ChristianKl: @GerardM: I found that Wikidata StrepHit project target matches my intentions given that, it extracts statements from sentences, but since Strephit accuracy is only 78% and stills relays on the human interaction by using PMS. We can enhance the Strephit since we already have 180000 apporved and 50000 disapproved statements which could be use to retrain StrepHit's in order to get an accuracy that is closed to the human level.Once we get that level of accuracy it make sense to automate the process by using a bot. In order to confirm my hypothesis I need to know more about the implementation of StrepHit, so I am going to try to contact any of the StrepHit's team member to learn more about it.--GhassanMas (talk) 21:47, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

I think there will be an uptick in actual StrepHit usage once usability improvements are made. If there are more claims made by StrepHit I also think that more claims will be approved. Working with the Primary Sources tool will also be an activity that might be fun for new users of Wikidata.

Even if the data quality of StrepHit improves having a human review data can be still useful to catch errors. There might be some subsets where StrepHit is certain enough to enter data without human verification but I think we are a long way from that at the moment. ChristianKl (talk) 22:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

To be more clear my intentions are as the following: 1) Training a model like StrepHit to extract a special type of statements, by looking for a specific properties like contains the administrative territorial entity (P150), e.g: scan the corpus of different cities on wikipeida "where the sentience we are scanning is referenced", 2) extracting the statement, 3) compare the extracted statements to the actual statements to measure the accuracy, 4) repeat to until getting a human like accuracy, 5) rebuild another model but for another type of propitiates.

When I reference to a human like accuracy, I but in mind the mean accuracy of editors on Wikidata, just like some of the humans edits needs to be rechecked, I expects the same for the model. The point is each model would be compared to a human to who's spending a 24/7 checking wikipedia corpus for a specific properties.--GhassanMas (talk) 11:32, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure that you get the false positive rate by comparing the extrated statements to the actual statements in most cases. If there an extracted statement that doesn't exist as an actual statement you don't know if it doesn't exist because nobody entered it or whether it doesn't exist because it's wrong.

In general I don't think there would be strong opposition to writing more bots that import data from Wikipedia. On the other hand it's not the kind of data that's most valued inside Wikidata as data that isn't backed up by external sources. ChristianKl (talk) 18:27, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Suppose we have an extracted statement that state "city_X is a city in Germany", we could definitely know that if the "cityX" is a city in Germany or not "false positive".

The point is not just to create a bot to extract statements from Wikipedia, imagine every sentence in Wikipeida "that has a corresponding statement in Wikidata" is synced with it's relevant Wikidata item. We would easily detects inconsistency between different versions of Wikipedia.--GhassanMas (talk) 20:25, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Historically the German question doesn't happen to be a trival question with a trival answer. There are many things that can be meant with Germany. Was Vienna in 1943 in Germany? Was Munich in 1860 in Germany? Was Berlin in 1860?

In general there's no reason to expect different versions to be completely consistent about issues such as borders of countries and in which country a city happens to be located.

When there are inconsistencies about it the issues tend to be highly political and those might not be best solved by a bot that doesn't understand the underlying politics. ChristianKl (talk) 09:43, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

The first paragraph in the Wikipedia article of Berlin, Munich, Vienna and others cities answers the question relative to the meantime. Extracting statements that answers historical question, would be done when scanning the e.g. historical section of the corresponding article with different module/features.

The bot isn't meant to be responsible to fix inconsistency, rather to just point it out.--GhassanMas (talk) 10:38, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Not all cities exist currently. Take the historical city of Wedding that was integrated in 1860 into Berlin. It was a German city. But it's not located in Germany (Q183) because Germany (Q183) was founded in 1871.

As a more practical example I would be interested in which country Hohengiersdorf Kreis Grottkau (Q25825696) is located. It's currently located in Polish territory but it's a German name and I don't know whether it was ever a Polish city or town. I know it was a Prussian town but I don't know whether it ever was a German town I think that parsing a Wikipedia article that would say something about it's locations is nontrivial.

In many cases people say something like X is located in Germany they can mean multiple different things. It's in the interest of Wikidata to not muddle everything together. ChristianKl (talk) 12:11, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@GhassanMas: thanks for your interest in the StrepHit project. As pointed out (thank you @ChristianKl: completely agree), StrepHit is not meant for harvesting internal sources like Wikipedia. I also think that your proposal would fit a bot duty. Said that, here are a couple of comments/questions about what you mentioned:

"Training a model like StrepHit to extract a special type of statements"

StrepHit is not a model, it is a NLP pipeline. With respect to the machine learning part, the implementation is already one model per Lexical Unit;

"compare the extracted statements to the actual statements to measure the accuracy"

this naturally emerges when a StrepHit dataset is uploaded to the primary sources tool: if a statement extracted by StrepHit already exists in Wikidata, it will get the reference. You may see this as a signal of a correct extraction, but I wouldn't call it accuracy in classical terms of classification performances evaluation.

In light of this whole discussion, would you mind recapping in a more specific place how you wish to contribute to StrepHit? meta:Grants_talk:IEG/StrepHit:_Wikidata_Statements_Validation_via_References/Renewal

Cheers, Hjfocs (talk) 13:19, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Backlink on Property talk subpages?

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T146271

Wikidata:Project chat/Archive has link back to Wikidata:Project chat just below the header.
Property talk:P214/Archive 1 doesn't have that. It can be activated, by enabling the "subpage" features.

Shall we do that? Otherwise one relies on some template pointing back to the talk page.

As there can't be any subpages in property namespace (e.g. Property:P214/whatever), the only use of pages such as Property talk:P214/Archive 1 is in relation to their parent (Property talk:P214).
--- Jura 12:02, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Sounds sane. I

Support this. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 15:14, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Support, useful. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 15:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

You can add my

Support. --Edgars2007 (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Support. Useful and I can't see any problems with it. Thryduulf (talk) 21:12, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Support. --Yair rand (talk) 23:59, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Do we have a property to describe a nerve going through fascia?

The anterior interosseous nerve (Q4771357) goes through Interosseous membrane of forearm (Q1692993) (http://flexikon.doccheck.com/de/Nervus_interosseus_anterior). Do we have an existing property that can be used to describe this spatial relationship? ChristianKl (talk) 21:39, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

We have the newly created innervated by (P3189) and innervates (P3190). Is that what you are after? Thryduulf (talk) 21:42, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure but I was thinking that the nerve just passes through the fasciae and in general muscles get innervated by (P3189) and innervates (P3190). I don't think there are any neuron's in the fasciae. I was thinking about the nerve passes through the fasciae in the way a door allows you to pass through a wall. ChristianKl (talk) 22:02, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Ah ok, I'm way out of my depth on subject knowledge so I can't help further! Thryduulf (talk) 22:11, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

[Nerve] innerverates [Muscle] via [Fascia]? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:48, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

How to enter with data / files

Hi I've created the account but don't know how can I file my data. Could you orient me? Or is there any number I could call in? Thanks. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by MetaSocialTPH (talk • contribs) at 15:47, 22 September 2016‎ (UTC).

What kind of data do you wan to add? Wikidata:Data donation might be off help. ChristianKl (talk) 18:18, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

described at url vs. reference URL

How do I choose between reference URL and described at URL? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:56, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

The former is for plain links in references (add retrieval date as well), the latter is meant to be used in standalone statements if no authority control property is available, and it is not wise to propose for one (no retrieval date necessary). —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Q7530126 (autumnal equinox) + Q12014191 (September equinox)

These two seem to be the same, at least according to descriptions in EN, LT, EO and ET language wikis. Interwiki links do not conflict, only Freebase IDs are different. Powermelon (talk) 06:37, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Merged. Lymantria (talk) 06:58, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

The problem is the autumnal equinox occurs in September for those living north of the equator in a temperate climate, and March for those living south of the equator in a temperate climate. And many people don't experience the seasons spring or autumn, so the terms "vernal equinox" and "autumnal equinox" are rather meaningless. But the version of astronomy that is widely practiced throughout the world developed in Europe, where the autumnal equinox is the September equinox, so frequently in astronomy "autumnal equinox" and "September equinox" are synonymous. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:11, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Property to mark signatories of the Giving Pledge

Do we have a property to mark signatories of The Giving Pledge (Q203807)? ChristianKl (talk) 10:39, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

@ChristianKl: Use signatory (P1891). You can search for properties by entering "P:STRING" in the search box, replacing STRING with the search term. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:53, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Labels in disambiguation pages

I try to add "Wedi" as the German label for de:Wedi in Q14856954. However, I get the error message Could not save due to an error. Item Q7948799 already has label "WEDI" associated with language code de, using the same description text. How do I go about the difference between "Wedi" and "WEDI" here? --Gereon K. (talk) 07:44, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Have heard, that people are adding some simbols to distinguish labels. Like " (2)". Or delete de-label from WEDI (Q7948799). But there are probably much better ways to do this. --Edgars2007 (talk) 07:49, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd say those two items can be merged. --YMS (talk) 08:02, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I tried to merge the two items but did not manage. --Gereon K. (talk) 08:42, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I merged them. ChristianKl (talk) 09:14, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

If the label and description of an item are the same, then either (1) the item refers to the same concept in the world and thus should be merged or similar, or (2) refer to two different concepts in the world and thus the descriptions should be refined to reflect that. The label and description should always be identifying for the concept the item is about. If they are the same, how would you know which one to choose from from a list? --Denny (talk) 16:01, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I think that "WEDI" is different than "Wedi" but for the wikidata software is the same thing. --ValterVB (talk) 17:12, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Are there Wikipedia projects who have separate disambiguation pages based on capitalization? ChristianKl (talk) 23:11, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, there are quite a lot of them. Just type some two or three letter to the search engine and see. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 07:45, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Open topic : articles whose main topic slides over time

w:en:The Hidden Wiki is an article about a family of wikis. It was an article about a specific wiki in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Hidden_Wiki&oldid=665397811

What does that mean for Wikidata ? Per the "1 topic = 1 item" subject, it seems to me that there is two items involved to talk about the two topics, one for the original wiki, one for the concept behind the wiki that has been instanciated several time since. But that would imply that the article migrates to another item when they change the topic.

This does not seem to be a problem on the Wikidata side as this is technically absolutely not a problem and is actually the obvious solution. What does community feels about this, in and out Wikidata ? I do not think we actually document this anywhere and it has not been discussed. Do you think this will be well accepted by wikipedians ? Some of them have still a problem with the "one topic = one subject" equation unfortunately, so they might want to merge the items ... author TomT0m / talk page 12:00, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, from Wikisource point of view, this is what we have tried to implement. But I am afraid we have failed more or less completely. Wikidata maybe never should have been marketed as the solution to Interwiki. Phase 1 and Phase 2 probably came in the wrong order! -- Innocent bystander (talk) 12:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Office held vs titular

Hoi, several maharajas were no longer in office from the day of Indian independence. After that they and people after them are known as titular maharajas. This is definitgly not being "in office". So how is this to be registered? Thanks, GerardM (talk) 09:11, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

A related problem is Swedish Dukes in modern time, like Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland (Q212035). You have to go back to 16th century to see this as a little more than a title. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 10:13, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

We don't have a property for "being in office anyway" we have one for "holds position". I think that works for titular positions. ChristianKl (talk) 17:30, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

They are thought to be synonymous. That is part of the problem. I now used (once) instance of titular ruler.. I use it as a qualifier. Thanks GerardM (talk) 18:13, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

I think when it comes to issues like this it's very important to look at the actual properties we have. On Johannes Kleineidam (Q113746) I think a titular bischop is well marked as such with the position held (P39). It's debatable whether being a titular bishop is an office but it clearly seems to be a position. ChristianKl (talk) 09:21, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

A titular bishop is something specific. A titular Maharaja is the next successor in a dynastic line. Something utterly different. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 19:15, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

SPARQL examples migrated

I've finished migrating SPARQL examples to Wikidata:SPARQL query service/queries/examples - this is now the official SPARQL examples page.

I've also created a redirect: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:SPARQL_examples for convenience. The old page at mediawiki.org is now soft redirect to a new one.

Please notify me if you see any issues.

--Smalyshev (WMF) (talk) 20:43, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Woo! This is great! ·addshore· ^{talk to me!} 10:47, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

The page is very long (currently 140,307 bytes) and needs to be subdivided. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:30, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Linking Wikipedia articles directly to Wikidata items

There are many items that don't have entries on Wikipedia but have entries on Wikidata. It seems that there's currently no way to make this link. Is there a reason for why we have the status quo? I'm in the process of going through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Pledge and the spouses of the billionaires are certainly important enough to have Wikidata items even when they don't have Wikipedia articles. The same goes for parents of notable figures.

A reference to the Wikidata item wouldn't have to provide a direct link. It could also offer a tooltip in the Reasonator way. ChristianKl (talk) 12:09, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 12:26, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

At enwiki there is also w:en:template:Red Wikidata link. --Jklamo (talk) 14:55, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Great, I was looking for something like w:en:template:Red Wikidata link. ArticlePlaceholder seems to be only for items that are notable by the standards of the local Wikis. If we have an example like items in a list of WikiLoveMomuments, those aren't. It would be still good to have them linked.

I think it would be nice if that template would show the same thing that's shown when a user hovers an item in Reasonator. I'm also not sure whether Wikipedians would get annoyed with the space that's taken by written out Wikidata and Reasonator in case this template would be used more widely.ChristianKl (talk) 15:34, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Would it be posible to copy w:en:template:Red Wikidata link to the German Wikipedia? ChristianKl (talk) 12:28, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Like the rest of Wikipedia, it's under an open licence. You should ask an admin on de.Wikipedia to import it for you, to ensure that the attribution in the page history is preserved. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:38, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not familar with the practical process of asking an admin (and knowing which admin to ask) in this case. ChristianKl (talk) 15:01, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

@ChristianKl: Simply ask on de:Wikipedia:Administratoren/Notizen. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:25, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Entity usage exposure

Hello all,

We're currently working on developing tools about Wikidata entities usage exposure on the Wikimedia projects.

On the API, you can use prop=wbentityusage with the title of a Wikipedia page to display information about the Wikidata entities used in this page. This is already deployed and you can see an example about Hubble.
In the info special page of an article, we display the list of Wikidata entities used in this page (example). Later, the entity exposure information will be in the bottom of the page in the "Properties" section.
There is another API module we implemented which is list=wblistentityusage. It's not deployed yet, you can see an example in the beta cluster.
We implemented a special page called Special:EntityUsage. It's not deployed yet, you can see an example in beta cluster.
We're also working on action=info in Wikidata, to show editors where the data of a particular item is used on other Wikimedia projects : see on Phabricator.

If you have any question or feedback about it, feel free to add a comment or mention @Ladsgroup:. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 14:02, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

In Wikidata, please add a link in the tools menu to get a list of Wikis that make use of an item. Aggregated usage counts at the item page would even be better but probably too difficult to get. -- JakobVoss (talk) 17:44, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

That a great news. Thank you very much! -- T.seppelt (talk) 18:15, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Any chance, that this kind of thing would be possible? The property in question there isn't actual, I'm asking about it in general. Didn't see such option in links you gave, so sorry, if I missed something. --Edgars2007 (talk) 18:23, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I think it should end up on

eventually. For Wikidata:Requests for deletions, this seems important.
--- Jura 11:19, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Hello @Edgars2007:, no, working on the use of a property is not planned for now. Can you give me an example of where and why this could be useful for you so we can understand better what is the need? :) Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 16:59, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

@Lea Lacroix (WMDE): a) the one, that Jura mentioned (for Wikidata:Requests for deletions) - to make sure, that everybody are notified

b) pretty the same, that I mentioned in the link I gave. I have property X (external ID), for which the URL structure completely or partially changed. Now I update data here with new IDs, and want to make sure, that on client-side everything is fine (e.g. if they're using their own formatter URL, not the one from Wikidata).

Well, something like that. Probably there are other use-cases, too. Oh, and to deprecate {{ExternalUse}} :) because I'm pretty sure, it's not complete on any of property talk pages. --Edgars2007 (talk) 17:22, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Translating many labels to QIDs efficiently and safely

Using QuickStatements I find myself often translating large lists like:

Abuja
Accra
Algiers

... to their QID equivalents, using https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Search one-by-one. Is there a tool that could give me the CSV result below automatically from the list above?

Abuja   Q3787 Capital of Nigeria
Accra   Q3761 Capital city of Ghana
Algiers Q3561 Capital of Algeria

The description on the right is important so that I can check whether the item is really the one I was want. Thanks! Syced (talk) 07:29, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

By the way, I am surprised that the request below produces zero result (despite the existence of Berlin (Q64)):

SELECT ?item
WHERE
{
    ?item rdfs:label "Berlin"
}

Try it!

Syced (talk) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

SPARQL probbaly won't be your friend this time. See also Wikidata talk:SPARQL query service/queries#Items with a given label in any language. --Edgars2007 (talk) 07:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

It's "Berlin"@de
--- Jura 07:48, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

BTW, you can use search via API. If you create some script somewhere, you may get what you want. --Edgars2007 (talk) 07:53, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

The Linked Items tool does something close. Input is Wiki markup, so you'd need to enter [[Abuja]], [[Accara]], etc, one item per line, and watch for disambiguated articles. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:05, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately it does not give a description, so I can't check whether the correct items have been retrieved (short of opening each item in a web browser, which is very inconvenient). Syced (talk) 02:53, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

@Syced: you query for Berlin has some problems, it's too wide : you don't specify the langage or the type of items you're looking for, and you didn't ask for label or description. Something better (with lang and capital of (P1376)) would be :

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?itemDescription WHERE {
    ?item wdt:P1376 [] ; rdfs:label "Berlin"@de
	SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "de". }
}

Try it!

For the initial question, you could build a query like:

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel ?itemDescription WHERE {
    ?item wdt:P1376 ?country.
	?country wdt:P31 wd:Q6256 .
	SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en". }
}

Try it!

Caveat: I'm good but not very good at queries, there is probably more efficient way to do it. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 08:56, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

NGC vs. SIMBAD - IDs for astronomical objects

New General Catalogue ID (P3208), which I proposed, was recently created. It seems that in many cases the ID is the same as SIMBAD ID (P3083) (e.g. for Jewel Box (Q725477), the IDs are "NGC 4755"). Is this always the case? If so, how should we deal with the matter? The fact that IDs are prefixed "NGC" suggests that the property name should include that string. @Mike Peel: for expertise. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

The IDs for the New General Catalogue (Q14534) used by New General Catalogue ID (P3208) are malformed. The ID for Jewel Box (Q725477) (in the context of New General Catalogue (Q14534)) is 4755, not NGC 4755. --Succu (talk) 22:01, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure I completely understand the subject of concern. ID's in SIMBAD are not always the same as in the NGC, for example, HR 349 in SIMBAD is "* g Psc -- Double or multiple star", but there is no NGC ID for this star. --Marshallsumter (talk) 00:31, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

The questions I asked were "Is this always the case? If so, how should we deal with the matter?". You have given answer to the former which is equivalent of "no"; thereby rending the second of them void. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:37, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Simbad IDs are a bit complicated... As far as I can see, they basically have multiple IDs for each catalogue that's been imported. So NGC 1952 and M1 are both identifiers for the same object, using the NGC and Messier catalogues respectively.

Quite how that should be handled here, I'm not sure. Perhaps via giving multiple SIMBAD IDs in Wikidata where those IDs point to the same object? Or maybe auto-generating SIMBAD IDs based on things like NGC number?

But either way, you can't assume that a SIMBAD number will always be an NGC number, so it makes sense to keep track of them separately. @Succu: is right in terms of the number (rather than code) that should be given for the NGC identifier. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 14:52, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

As I indicated in the proposal for P3208, we currently store the IDs with the NGC prefix, in catalog (P972). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:04, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

In that case, it makes sense to include the acronym, as you have multiple catalogues you're giving IDs for and it avoids confusion if they have the acronyms included. Here, since it will always be "NGC", why not include that in the property rather than repeating it each time? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:43, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Why weren't these question brought up during the property proposal? And why are properties created when nobody of the community is familiar with the subject? --Pasleim (talk) 13:46, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

You'd have to ask all the people who were aware of them but didn't bring them up. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:33, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

So why you at least did not notify participants of Wikidata:WikiProject Astronomy if you are not familiar with the subject? I am not sure if displaying the proposal in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign outside the door saying "Beware of the Leopard" is enough to bring attention of people familiar with the subject. --Jklamo (talk) 15:09, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Why did the members of WikiProject Astronomy not notify the community of its existence? I am not sure if displaying the project in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign outside the door saying "Beware of the Leopard" is enough to bring attention of people not familiar with the subject. And why does no-one from the project have the far-from-cryptically named Wikidata:Property proposal/Space on their watchlist? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:14, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Why insists Mr. Mabbett on his own view about what we (as a community) regard as consensus for property creation? --Succu (talk) 18:30, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Why insists Mr Succu on attempting to speak for me, and doing so so badly? And what does this have to do with the NGC? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:46, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Mimicry? Informing the concerned Wikidata:WikiProject about a property proposal has todo something with communications affords within our project. --Succu (talk) 19:28, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

KrBot changing halfbrother to martial half-brother

I created Pierre Bernard (Q7192082) and entered the statement that he's a half-brother (Q15312935) of Glen Bernard (Q26996771) and gave a Reference for that claim. Afterwards @KrBot: came and turned half-brother (Q15312935) into maternal half-brother (Q19595227) based on the fact that a shared mother is entered (who doesn't the reference). I think that he's actually a maternal half-brother (Q19595227) but the reference I have given for the claim doesn't back this claim. To me that seems like KrBot worses the data quality (@Alessandro Piscopo:. What do you think? ChristianKl (talk) 20:47, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

I have noticed similar issues when I update data in statements for individual data items, though not for relations, but other properties. The way I handle these is to delete the reference. If I have a reference for my specific change I will add that one, and if I have no reference except inference (e.g. in this case the shared mother could be inferred from the relation tree in reasonator) then the statement just becomes unreferenced. I think this is a case of "Wikipedia-think" in that you can keep such a reference in Wikipedia, because the reference applies to part of the statement. On Wikidata that doesn't work, because the reference always applies to the whole statement. Jane023 (talk) 07:36, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I think that's also wrong behavior because it deletes good referenced data. If you want to add something for which you don't have a reference that's as trustworthy as the original reference it would make more sense to add a new statement with your claim intead of deleting the old one. ChristianKl (talk) 09:23, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Agree - a bot should never, ever change data with a good (full) reference. If useful, it should be ok to add a new statement, but should also add a qualifier, along the lines of "inferred from" Catherine Bernard (Q26997009). However, in the example given, the only statements that support the inference are completely unreferenced so the bot is creating unreferenced data based on more unreferenced data. This is not a good idea. Robevans123 (talk) 13:37, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

How do we mark the birth year if we know a person was age X at year or date Y?

Is there currently a straightfoward way to mark the this kind of information? ChristianKl (talk) 13:31, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Birth date is somevalue qualified by earliest date (P1319) and latest date (P1326)? – Máté (talk) 13:52, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Try Property_talk:P569#Qualifier_determination_method_.28P459.29_use_with_date_of_birth_.28P569.29.
--- Jura 13:53, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #228

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

Events/Blogs/Press
- Past: WikiCon 2016
- Past: OASPA conference (slides)
- Past: State of the Map
- Past: National Institute of Health: frontiers in data science lecture series (slides)
- Upcoming: SMWCon
- Upcoming: office hour on IRC
- Blog post about Wikidata and data about Czech trees
Other Noteworthy Stuff
- The query examples have been migrated from mediawiki.org to wikidata.org at d:Wikidata:SPARQL examples
- HPI is doing a linked data engineering course online
- TXT Werk is doing automatic entity recognition in text with the help of Wikidata. Previously only German was supported. English is now supported as well.
- Andy has mapped most of the W3C's ontology for vCard to Wikidata properties.
Did you know?
- Newest properties: Heritage Lighthouse of Canada ID, Heritage Railway Station of Canada ID, New General Catalogue ID, Vine user ID, data.gouv.fr ID, patient of, Ciné-Ressources person ID, Ciné-Ressources movie ID, UAI code, Medical Dictionary for Regulatory Activities ID, Northern Ireland charity number, charity number (Isle of Man), JewishGen Locality ID, Federal Heritage Buildings ID, USGS earthquake id, league points system, INA video ID, GS1 Manufacturer code, Last.FM music ID, IMIS person ID, innervates, innervated by, Nobel prize ID, Marburger Professorenkatalog ID, TAXREF ID, VKontakte username, Czech National Bibliography book ID, WSJ topic ID, FANTOIR code, OpenCitations bibliographic resource ID
- Query examples: taxonomy of squirrels (source), good or featured articles about people on Wikipedia but with no picture on Wikidata (source), Nordic Cross flags (source)
Development
- mnc (for Manchu) will soon be available as a language code for monolingual text values (phabricator:T137808)
- Worked on foreign EntityIds in order to be able to use Wikidata's items and properties on Commons in the future (phabricator:T145516, phabricator:T146030, phabricator:T146274)
- More work on usage tracking UI (phabricator:T145965, phabricator:T143148, phabricator:T145189, phabricator:T144923)
- RFC discussion about Multi-Content-Revisions - another big blocker for structured data on Commons (phabricator:E273)
- Ran a bot to mark dates that need a check of their calendar model (phabricator:T105100)
- Getting unit conversion into the query service soon. We'll start with units for length and then expand based on feedback. (phabricator:T117032)
- Working on extension to automatically link pages between languages on Wiktionary (phabricator:T145412)
- Added the value that is responsible for an error in the error message so it can be found and fixed more easily (phabricator:T144303)
- Working on fix for issue with extremely large or small date values in RDF (phabricator:T146356)
- Expanding references again in diffs (phabricator:T129836)
- Unbroke CopyReferences gadget. More work is needed. (phabricator:T142203)
- Fixed issue with 2 search suggestion boxes showing up instead of 1 (phabricator:T119492)
- Worked on improving the query service documentation (phabricator:T133052)
Monthly Tasks
- Hack on one of these.
- Help develop the next summary here!
- Contribute to a Showcase item
- Help translate or proofread pages in your own language!
- Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
- Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
- Comment on property proposals: all open proposals - proposals needing attention

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) 21:32, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Help for longer caption property and translation for other properties

Hi. Could you check this discussion from en.wiki Village pump (and related pages on en.wiki) and help on how to get longer caption and is it possible to translate content of some properties if there is no article written yet on other Wikipedia? Thanks. --Obsuser (talk) 00:20, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Spam, or not (redux)

I raised the issue of whether:

are spam, or not, in August. The discussion seems to have been archived with no decision reached. A further item:

Rahul Guhathakurta (Q26205845)

seems related. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:31, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I think the goal of our notability policy is to have data that can be verified. That's the sense in which we require serious and reliable sources. To me it seems like all the data in those items is of that nature. I don't see how it would help the goals of Wikidata to delete this entry. ChristianKl (talk) 16:24, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I significantly shortened the descriptions, which were far too detailed. I suggest that since these items are not connected with the rest of Wikidata, that they could be safely deleted as of now - but I don't have a strong opinion on that. My reasoning for deletion is less "I don't want this stuff in Wikidata" but rather "if this stuff is in Wikidata, I want similar stuff to be in Wikidata too". I.e. if the creator would create a reasonably complete list of the given specific area of interest (however defined), yes, sure, go ahead. If we don't expect that to happen, meh, keep the single items out. Something like this. It isn't polished, and just opinion. --Denny (talk) 16:51, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

To me that policy sounds like administrative work that creates conflict between people when we instead could simply allow the data to be in Wikidata without having any conflict whereby people's contributions get deleted. Having a welcoming culture that makes it easy to contribute new data sounds like me like it's more likely to get people to contribute interesting data.

Wikipedia get's a lot of criticism because it's not welcome of knowledge that white males don't find interesting. When you define notability as "things that we find interesting as white people and that institutions that we consider to have reputation find interesting" you keep out a lot of potential contributors.

As long as data is created in a process that likely leads to accurate data, accepting it is valuable for our internal culture. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of undeveloped stubs. Maybe they become valuable to someone and maybe they don't but they don't hurt.

If we focus more on the actual data in question I think we will have more data about journals in Wikidata as WikiCite moves forward. If we allow a Zotero plugin, then we would get even more data that's linked to journals. ChristianKl (talk) 17:46, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't like this kind of item, sources proving the existence not the relevance, and our policy said « The entity must be notable, in the sense that it can be described using serious and publicly available references » this is not the case--ValterVB (talk) 18:01, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Do you doubt that http://isni.org/ is a serious or a publically available reference? It seems for me hard to argue that it isn't serious. It's also hard to argue that it isn't publically available. If you think that serious can be defined in a way where http://isni.org/ doesn't count what's your definition?The same goes for the Library of Congress. If instiutions like that aren't serious, what's `serious` a code word for?ChristianKl (talk) 19:03, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

No, I doubt that in this page I can found something of notable. --ValterVB (talk) 19:28, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Basically you reject the definition of notability that the document gives and want a different definition of notability. The document defines notability about serious and public available sources. I would guess that you want something like "I want that a source respected by my culture says this item is important". In a project that tries to be culturally inclusive that policy has no place. ChristianKl (talk) 19:42, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

No, I follow our criteria of notability. isni.org is a serious source that confimt that exist something called IndraStra but says nothing about what is and why is notable. -- ValterVB (talk) 19:52, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

The requirement in the policy is that the source describes an item. It's not that the source declares the item as important or noteworthy. In this case the source describes IndraStra. It says that it has an INSI number. It also tells us where IndraStra is located. That's information we can take from INSI as reputable facts to integrate into Wikidata. There are four Wikidata statements that can be gathered from the INSI description. No statement made in those items comes from a source that's not trustworthy for the statements being made. (I think that's what serious should be about, can we trust the source to say the truth?) ChristianKl (talk) 20:20, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

« in the sense that it can be described using serious and publicly available references » what kind of description we have in insi page? We have an address, but what is? A shop, an hotel? we haven't information about this item in insi page. Probably "white page" have more info. --ValterVB (talk) 20:32, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

We have some information from INSI but if you want more detail we also have CrunchBase as another serious and reliable source and that has a field that explicitly labeled "description". In general it's useful to have a place that aggregates information from different serious and reliable databases. It generally useful to have a place where CrunchBase ID's can be linked to INSI numbers. For various bots that want to make operations on large datasets knowledge that links entities together is valuable. ChristianKl (talk) 15:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Why doesn't Quickstatements enter references?

I entered `Q11090 P927 Q682466 S854 Q27031918 S304 5` into Quickstatements. Unfortunately small intestine (Q11090) doesn't show the reference. What's up? ChristianKl (talk) 19:00, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

page(s) (P304) is of string type, so you need to add quotes. However, I would be surprised if it works as you desire, I would expect that QuickStatements adds two separate references rather than compiling one with P854 and P340. —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:32, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I reduced it to `Q64386 P927 Q682466 S854 Q27031918` and it still doesn't add a reference. ChristianKl (talk) 10:46, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

replace S854 by S248. --Pasleim (talk) 11:00, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

LiveJournal ID property

More eyes are needed on Wikidata:Property proposal/LiveJournal. ru.Wikipedia has over 1000 IDs LiveJournal in templates. Template:LiveJournal (Q13254200) exists in eleven (11) Wikipedias. Should the property be created? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:51, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Imprecise date of birth

How should one enter an imprecise date of birth - e.g. 1698/9, as the ODNB has for Mary Mogg? thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:39, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Just type "1698-09". This adds a date of birth with month precision. Cf. Help:Dates as well. —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:44, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Help:Dates helps. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:03, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tagishsimon, MisterSynergy: "1698-09" is "September 1698". "1698/9", while ambiguous, is in this case most likely "1698 or 1699". Enter "1698" with precision "decade"; and use qualifiers "earliest date" and latest date", thus. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:27, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tagishsimon: what does "1698/9" mean? Does it "1698 or 1699" or does it mean "September 1698"? Jc3s5h (talk) 19:29, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Oh I indeed thought they mean "September 1698", but "1698 or 1699" seems more likely. Thanks for noting! —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:31, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks; yes, I'd got to the same place. And sorry, my question was ambiguous ... could have been month, could have been span of two years. As I said, Help:Dates helped. (It was a span of two years, in this case, and PoTW has sorted it out, for which thanks.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:04, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

instance of (P31) vs. subclass of (P279)

Probably this was already discussed, but I am not able to find a reliable source for solving this task. I wanted to add instance of (P31) and subclass of (P279) to racket sports tournaments, but there are totally different ways of using these statements (see French Open (Q43605), Australian Open (Q60874) or US Open (Q123577)). What is the correct way of using the statements, and where can I find a guideline for using these statements for sports events? --Florentyna (talk) 19:09, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

(Added clickable links to your contribution); The subclass-approach as in the first example is correct. You can then use the instance property on specific editions of these tournaments, as in 2016 French Open (Q22690923). —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:16, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

TOP CATEGORY vs. SUBCATEGORY

A second question would be, if TOP CATEGORY statements should be added if already a SUBCATEGORY statement exists - see Saina Nehwal (Q464311). There was added the occupation (P106) athlete (Q2066131), but the occupation badminton player (Q13141064) was already there. --Florentyna (talk) 19:14, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

badminton player (Q13141064) correctly subclasses athlete (Q2066131), thus the more general statement is not necessary and can safely be removed. —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:20, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

A way to directly link to the edit box for Wikidata items

Greetings, is there a way from, say, an enwiki page to directly link to the edit box for the associated Wikidata item? There is a proposal here to use information from Wikidata in infoboxes and one concern raised was how to fix incorrect information. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:15, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

If you look at an item like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spleen there's a tiny [edit on Wikidata] link at the buttom. At the moment that seems to be the best bet. Unfortunately different language version on Wikipedia currently have their own interface to Wikidata that are separately developed and changing them is political. Providing a way to let users have an UI that allows direct Wikidata editing but not allow people to directly edit it in via the source editor might find opposition. See also the discussion on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Putnik/Wikidata_module ChristianKl (talk) 21:05, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

It would be great to have a special page for editing statements, just like the one for labels, descriptions and aliases. This could be added to the mobile version too. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 21:08, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

P31 inconsistency

Berlin (Q64) is an instance of (P31) big city (Q1549591).
So why does the query below not return big city (Q1549591)?

SELECT ?type WHERE {
  wd:Q64 wdt:P31 ?type.
}

Try it!

Thanks! Syced (talk) 06:05, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Someone made an experiment with preferred rank.
--- Jura 06:08, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Jura, the problem is now fixed for Berlin (Q64), but the exact same problem occurs for another big city:

SELECT ?type WHERE {
  wd:Q456 wdt:P31 ?type.
}

Try it!

Is it a similar problem? Cheers! Syced (talk) 09:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

It's the same problem. The rank of the statement instance of (P31)=commune of France (Q484170) was set to preferred [6] and wdt:P31 only returns you the statements with the best rank. Use wd:Q456 p:P31/ps:P31 ?type. to get all statements. --Pasleim (talk) 09:50, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Sometimes this was caused by eswiki that has an infobox that displays P31, but fails to filter it .. This leads some users to try to fix it by changing ranks and/or using items with labels that appear more suitable (e.g. "municipality" instead of "municipality of Spain", etc).
--- Jura 10:17, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! I will change all my queries to use p:P31/ps:P31 instead of P31, to avoid such problems in the future. Cheers! Syced (talk) 06:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Creating an overview of Wikipedia sitelinks for a handpicked list of Wikidata items?

I was in doubt whether to post this at Request a Query or here - but it goes beyond queries, I guess. A common workflow for me: I have a handpicked list of Wikidata items like the ones collected in this PagePile (no, can't be gathered via a query, it's a hand-curated list). I would really like to create a Listeria-like table in which I can also list/see which language Wikipedias have articles for each Wikidata item (ideally with a link to each Wikipedia article - e.g. en, nl for Barbara Visser (Q1907680)). I found no tool that points into this direction and am also stumped about queries, especially with that handpicked selection of items... does anyone have tips on how to do this? Many thanks in advance, Spinster 💬 16:18, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Spinster: a very ugly query for that would be something like:

select ?item (GROUP_CONCAT(?sitelink; separator=", ") as ?sitelinks)
{
values ?item {wd:Q1907680 wd:Q5041755 } .
?sitelink schema:about ?item .
}
group by ?item

Try it!

--Edgars2007 (talk) 08:41, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

LOL. I'd consider this a fine example of brutalism (Q994776) in SPARQL. How simple! Thanks! Spinster 💬 09:36, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Newbie Q. - Linking wikidata person to wikipedia (non-person) subject article

Let's take w:Ladies of Llangollen, and Sarah Ponsonby (Q18759402). Should the latter be linked to the former? thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:51, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tagishsimon: no, they shouldn't as those are two different topics (one is about group of women and other is about one person). --Edgars2007 (talk) 08:31, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tagishsimon: They are linked, through the use of part of (P361) on Q3012704. We call this the "Bonnie and Clyde issue". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:54, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. And presumably described by source (P1343) can be used? Like this? --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

No. part of (P361)/has part(s) (P527) are sufficient. --Izno (talk) 17:45, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

How to force table view to use columns, even with numerous columns?

My query has many columns, but I still want it to show up as a table, because that makes it easier to identify missing fields. Unfortunately, when I added columns it started showing up as a kind of "line view" with only two columns, one for keys and one for values.

Is there a way to force the display of columns as real columns?

I added #defaultView:Table but it does not do the trick, probably due to the high number of columns.

Thanks! Syced (talk) 07:19, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Buy a larger screen?
--- Jura 08:56, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Not sure if it works on all machines and browser but normally if you press F12 you should enter the developer mode which should display the traditional table. --Pasleim (talk) 09:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

It might be worth adding this to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T145972
--- Jura 09:47, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

FYI: WP:fr is defining the conditions to use Wikidata in its domain

Starting yesterday, WP:fr is defining the conditions to use Wikidata in its infoboxes. The RfC will finish in one month. See here for more details. Snipre (talk) 23:03, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm probably speaking in name of all editors, who don't speak French :) Maybe we can get some kind of overwiev (at the end) of main points for and against WD usement at infoboxes? Probably we would be more interested in those which are against using Wikidata. That would help to prepare ideas better for such discussions at other Wikipedias :) Of course, there is Google Translate, but... --Edgars2007 (talk) 08:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Sure, we will provide a feedback after the end of RfC. Snipre (talk) 20:31, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Extracting Scientists from Wikipedia

A paper published some time ago: Extracting Scientists from Wikipedia (Q27037451). It comes to the (not so surprising) conclusion that Wikipedia still has more information about scientists' occupations than occupation (P106) at Wikidata.
--- Jura 09:47, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

They should also have noticed that the number of scientists in Wikidata is a bigger collection. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 10:51, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

The paper doesn't actually mention the number of records. I got 20 (of 24383) for March/April 1879 (compared to the 16 mentioned, supposedly from January 2016). This seems fairly close.
--- Jura 11:58, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Full text available at http://www.ep.liu.se/ecp/126/003/ecp16126003.pdf Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:14, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanking and patrolling

Do we have a preference that allows to automatically mark as patrolled a thanked diff (if you have the right to patrol of course, not sure about the detail but I think it's very simple to get it semiautomatically here on data).

I am not a patroller (it can happen, but not my cup of tea) but I thank a lot of newbies. In my experience, wikidata edits are often simple, at last those in ns0. if you thank someone, it's usually for a good job, there's no subtle gray area here. And BTW even if there's something to fix I'll probably fix it at the moment immdiately. I mean I don't care a lot but why forcing someone to double check an edit that it's good? I think that many users when they thank they are also telling you implicitly that the edit is ok. So why duplicate the effort?

So, do we have something like that? Or have we ever discussed the implication at a meta level?--Alexmar983 (talk) 08:07, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Sounds sane. --Edgars2007 (talk) 08:11, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Data model discussion about dates

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T146499

I have started a discussion about dates at mediawikiwiki:Talk:Wikibase/Indexing/RDF Dump Format. Because the change I'm requesting would affect both JSON and RDF, I had to start a parallel discussion, Phabricator task 146499. The reality is that all dates stored in Wikidata are local time, because the ability to change the time zone from Greenwich and the ability to enter time of day has never been implemented. I am proposing to change the data model documentation to recognize this reality. Please comment in the discussions I have pointed out. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:00, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

There's no ability to enter time of day in Wikidata. ChristianKl (talk) 16:19, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia Corpus to Wikidata

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2016/09#Wikipedia_Corpus_to_Wikidata

@Hjfocs: Before being able to contribute in StrepHit I need first to fully study the StrepHit documentations's as well as to review it's repository.While studying the pipeline I may encounter some questions, so would be available to answer it? and if yes, how do you prefer I should reach you?.--GhassanMas (talk) 17:07, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Grants to improve your project

Greetings! The Project Grants program is currently accepting proposals for funding. There is just over a week left to submit before the October 11 deadline. If you have ideas for software, offline outreach, research, online community organizing, or other projects that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers, start your proposal today! Please encourage others who have great ideas to apply as well. Support is available if you want help turning your idea into a grant request.

Submit a grant request
Get help: In IdeaLab or an upcoming Hangout session
Learn from examples of completed Individual Engagement Grants or Project and Event Grants

I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 19:52, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Allow non-existing article in a language to list articles in other languages

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T123021

Suggestion: Allow indicating that a non-existing article in current language exists in another language, so show the other language(s) in the Languages list, when suggesting creation of article.

Solution (idea): WikiData must allow language specification for a non-existing article in a certain language.

Advantage: Clicking on a read link for a non-existing article in a certain language could then give the option to read the article in other languages, in addition to creating the article. The reader can then get the information in another language of own choice, while the link still shows that the article is non-existing in the current language.

Note: Suggestion was also previously posted at [7]. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by MortenZdk (talk • contribs). 11:35, 11 September 2016 (UTC)