Property talk:P1695

Documentation

NLP ID (old)
National Library of Poland unique identifier. Format: "a" followed by 13 digits. For the newer 16-digit format use P7293

Associated item

National Library of Poland (Q856423)

Data type

External identifier

Allowed values

a[0-9]{13} (string starting with "a", then 13 digits)

Example

Jan Stanisław Skorupski (Q12904) → a0000001110784
Piers Anthony (Q559409) → a0000001157477
Charles Francis Hall (Q940601) → a0000002310597

Source

https://dbn.bn.org.pl/

Formatter URL

https://dbn.bn.org.pl/descriptor-details/$1

Tracking: usage

Category:Pages using Wikidata property P1695 (Q61034954)

Related to country

Poland (Q36) (See 67 others)

See also

PLWABN ID (P7293)

Lists

Proposal discussion

Current uses

Total	62,304
Main statement	61,706	99% of uses
Qualifier	4	<0.1% of uses
Reference	594	1% of uses

Search for values

[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Format “a[0-9]{13}”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). Known exceptions: Władysław Szafer Institute of Botany (Q8041247)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1695#Format, SPARQL

Conflicts with “instance of (P31): Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410), Wikimedia category (Q4167836)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)

List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1695#Conflicts with P31, hourly updated report, SPARQL

Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1695#Single value, SPARQL

Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1695#Unique value, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value)

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1695#Entity types

Item “PLWABN ID (P7293)”: Items with this property should also have “PLWABN ID (P7293)”. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1695#Item P7293, search, SPARQL

Pattern ^A([0-9]{7})[0-9X]$ will be automatically replaced to a000000\1.
Testing: TODO list

This property is being used by:

ko:틀:위키데이터 속성 추적

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Fixing the link to the NLP items[edit]

The previous default link (not PLWABN) should be changed to the shape like here: →Polish Wikipedia (http://mak.bn.org.pl/cgi-bin/KHW/makwww.exe?BM=01&IM=04&NU=01&WI="..id → http://mak.bn.org.pl/cgi-bin/KHW/makwww.exe?BM=01&IM=05&TX=&NU=01&WI="..id – IM=04&NU=01 → IM=05&TX=&NU=01). That was changed by our interface-admin Paweł Ziemian about 2 months ago and all of the items are display correctly (in that time I was checked more than one hundred links to the Polish National Library – every single item is displaying properly). Please change it to the previous shape, because now the Wikidata instructions require (every single time) to put digits starting with "9810". Probably every article in Polish Wikipedia links to the previous set of signs (starting with letter "A") – at least I had never seen (for a couple of years) in Polish Wikipedia linking with items in PLWABN standard. It was my intention to direct this request with this bug earlier (wrong linking), but I didn't manage to do so. Hope somebody fix it. Regards. --Pit rock (talk) 01:44, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Pit rock: I know it sucks, but it's necessary for a couple of reasons. Most importantly because "old" IDs—A12345678—aren't displayed anywhere in the authority records themselves, whereas "new" IDs—9810123456789012—are. Secondly, because all NLP IDs have updated been throughout VIAF as well. Jay D. Easy (talk) 20:38, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jay D. Easy: I've taken note of the fact that VIAF updated all of the NLP IDs. So, now I'm putting (Wikidata identifiers) these "new" IDs with "9810" prefix. Thanks to Paweł Ziemian that's no problem technically (now both IDs are displaying properly in Polish Wikipedia). I know that this dual ID display is temporarily, but we'll (Polish Wikipedians) have to update NLP IDs on Wikidata. That will be time-consuming, but if PLWABN is the target solution we are responsible for undertaking it. So my request to withdraw these changes (original NLP IDs → PLWABN IDs) is now obsolete. Thank you for your time. Regards.

Done --Pit rock (talk) 21:16, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Pit rock: good looking out, mate. I've been updating IDs left and right as well, but we have quite a ways to go. Jay D. Easy (talk) 21:30, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If the id changes, a new property should be used. Currently values should not be replaced with new values from a different system. Please formulate a proposal at Wikidata:Property proposal. --- Jura 21:33, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jura1: why? I can't find any info on this procedure. Point me in the right direction? Jay D. Easy (talk) 22:06, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This property was proposed and defined at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/28#P1695. I'm not aware of any procedure of making Wikidata values unstable. Where did you get the idea that you could change the values to another system or delete valid statements? --- Jura 22:08, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jura1: I am honestly inquiring as to why it would be more feasible to go through the process of property proposal again when the resultant property will end up linking to the exact same set of authority records. What makes a property "unstable?" Wouldn't it be easier to change the property constraint back to its new form, assuming users will be more inclined to fix property constraint violations rather than build up a new property? Jay D. Easy (talk) 22:21, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Data users who relied on P1695 for this data would suddenly get something else. If they used Wikidata to map their data to qids this would suddenly fail. The proposal process is fairly straightforward. It should take a week or so. With a new property, users can explicitly select what they get. --- Jura 11:18, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jura1: I've noticed that the numeric/character string has been changed to the original form: starting with "A" instead of "9810". If you are going to maintain that NLP ID standard please change the URL format: http://mak.bn.org.pl/cgi-bin/KHW/makwww.exe?BM=01&IM=04&NU=01&WI=$1 → http://mak.bn.org.pl/cgi-bin/KHW/makwww.exe?BM=01&IM=05&TX=&NU=01&WI=$1. As you will see that "old" URL will always generate wrong authority data: now that will be "Biuro Usług Promocyjnych (Sopot)" (another time it will be somthing else, but "destination" will always be wrong; for someone else – from different IP or rather user's uncleared cache – could load another set of data). In Polish Wikipedia we have already fixed that URL format. I'll be grateful for the changes. --Pit rock (talk) 19:56, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If the formatter URL doesn't work anymore, it needs to be de-activated:

Done --- Jura 11:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note, both ID formats now work through the wikidata-externalid-url service. The format constraint needs to be updated and it would probably good to add some additional examples with the 'A' format. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:10, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for setting this up. I added it as formatter url. However, I don't see how we could use two different schemes with the same property. As outlined above, the way to go would be to create a new property and populate that with the new values. Changing random values of this property to some other scheme isn't really helping keeping this a stable identifier. If NLP is found to be unstable, maybe we should stop including it entirely. --- Jura 15:09, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It breaks Wikidata's stability if we keep changing around identifiers. If users want to support a new identifier, use a new property. If there was interest in it, it would already have it set up by now. --- Jura 14:51, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PS: In the meantime, PLWABN ID (P7293) was created. See its proposal for the difference between the two identifiers. --- Jura 09:32, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fix of values[edit]

I've fixed the URL Example URL: https://dbn.bn.org.pl/descriptor-details/a0000002310597

Note however that the values differ. This is now a longer value. For example:

A11107844 becomes a0000001110784
A1157477X becomes a0000001157477
A23105975 becomes a0000002310597

So not sure if there is always an easy transform.

See more changes here: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property%3AP1695&diff=1899159571&oldid=1856250172. Nux (talk) 12:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If an identifier changes, the standard procedure is to create a new property. While I see a simple way to convert the old values to the new ones (replacing "A" with "a000000" and dropping the check digit), a new property is likely the way to go here. Though I am quite agnostic about it. Let's see what the other members of the Authority control project have to say about it.

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 21:45, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the IDs can be changed by a bot imho there is no need for a new property. Thanks for the hint. --Kolja21 (talk) 22:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PS: Seems to produce the same result as PLWABN ID (P7293). The records of the Biblioteka Narodowa have two identifiers: identyfikator BN and MMS ID. MMS = Metadata Management System, see Einführung in den Alma-Bestand. --Kolja21 (talk) 22:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the conversion supported above by Sotho and Kolja (see also the past conversion applied to the format of P396). --Epìdosis 04:57, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, both properties point to exactly the same entity, they basically always did. The polish library used the old system for a long time, then they switched to the new one, the MMS ID. Entries in VIAF got pulled and reuploaded. The older entries where still accessable via the now defunct MAK system, so we kept both. Now it seems, they "revived" the old entries in a slighty new format and they also updated the URL to display more fancy information.

Regarding the conversion, since no one objects to the replacement option, that is what we will be doing, I guess. If anyone could do it programmatically, that would be nice. --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 20:54, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Property talk:P1695

Documentation

Fixing the link to the NLP items[edit]

Fix of values[edit]

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